Black Widow (Story Discussion)

[Headstall]

Ok, I would buy the Duke's trying to split up JJ and Alex, but not with the paparazzi. I think a scandal of that sort, that brings into question Alex's sexuality, his marriage and, by extension, the legitimacy of his son, would be far too dangerous to invite onto the front lawn. Not to mention that it'd be in poor taste.

 

I also agree that Nana has the money and influence to target ED, but she wouldn't do so at the expense of anyone in JP's family.

 

 

Love the suit! Now you are both protected and stylish shiny! I should probably start working on one. Or find someone more creative (and crafty!) to make it for me.

 

Very interesting idea about Brad.  I hadn't considered that, but it certainly has merit. I personally am sticking with the theory that Brad is another target, possibly the primary one or co-primary with ED, of an as yet unidentified villain. But Brad as the BW(er) definitely warrants more speculation. 

 

Edit: Also, am I the only person here who doesn't trust Marc?

It IS possible that Marc is someone's plant, but there is nothing to indicate that yet. If he is a plant(or a disgruntled relative of someone?) he is in a perfect position to provide information and influence Brad. It's no loopier than any other speculation.

[impunity]

 It's no loopier than any other speculation.

 

Yay! "Not loopier than others" is something I can definitely set as an achievable target.

[Headstall]

Yay! "Not loopier than others" is something I can definitely set as an achievable target.

We should never try to reach too high... It's too damn exhausting

[Grienne]

I'm of two minds, I like the tin-foiliness of Brad as the mastermind, but it would absolutely blow my mind. I could see him coming up with a plan that would hurt Zach and Alex, but I don't think he'd want his kids wrapped up in anything public. Not to mention he's out of it. If Brad had gone 'round the bend and decided to make everyone come back to him, I would think he'd do it when he's around and can be seen as the guy who solves the problem and takes care of the family. All this is doing to solidifying their separation. But even something like that would be a huge reach for him. ... 

 

One thing both Liza Lou and ABC did well was find well-placed people with separate relationships with their targets who either had issues or could be motivated to use their position. They tend to motivate them differently but they can muddy the issue is they would independently have some motivation. (Think Brian Parnell, Cary Chase, Doug Childers, etc). 

 

Along those lines, more than Marc, I'm concerned about his ex. Zach and Will definitely got in his way and took away his control. He had enough time with Marc to have connections for an art show. I can't remember how off the top of my head, but I know he had some money. 

 

As for the Duke... I like the idea; this situation has turned out pretty well for him and is interests. I could see him being pretty concerned about ME. If this hadn't happened, Alex would have gone back to Boston, with ME taking up his place in society, she would have been in a great position to make life pretty challenging for him. Now with people not sure about her roll with the gutter press, and the unrefined, hysterical way she was portrayed, she'll be forced to behave very carefully, she can't keep ending up in the press without incurring social harm, so she has to be pretty careful of scandal and Alex doesn't trust her. On top of that Alex is back in London. 

 

My current half-baked thought is that maybe blackmailing Zach wasn't supposed to work. I think it would be hard to count on Zach buying Trevor's story without knowing Zach very, very well given the oddity of having Trevor be family's mouth piece, even if you buy anyone in that family being willing to risk incurring Will's wrath. However, it probably is known that Zach has relied on Will in difficult situations - and that Will's first call would be Wade on this. Maybe Trevor is a false flag. The drugs may be a distraction, or a frame-up, or something else. I do think that the connection between Zach and the drugs is what the master-mind is behind - and that it would have happened with or without Will. 

 

Let me preface this last thought with saying while I would find this entertaining, I would be amazingly surprised if anything like it were true. Nana has plenty of reasons to want Liza Lou destroyed. She knows about the Trevor issue, she helped with the banker. She knows Will is persistent and would find out what happened whether the blackmail worked or not  - that gets Will and Wade on board with destroying ED. The ham-handed removal of JJ may be designed to separate ME from ED. The appearance of a threat to the family get JP on board. 

 

I still think ABC's youngest would be primed to play a roll, as may the other son to avoid treason. The former chairman of Triton, the father, may also be willing to payback the black ED provided Brad. 

 

 

Ha... you know who it is? The widow of JJs skating coach! Here's what happened: she decided these guys killed her husband, and we really don't know one way or the other there. She gets her Dad's medical files which gives her, between Brad, Robbie and Wade pretty much all of the information needed to screw with these guys pretty effectively, to find the right people to make their own attacks. And you probably don't need much money if the goal is to get the whole family taking shots at itself. 

[Headstall]

I'm of two minds, I like the tin-foiliness of Brad as the mastermind, but it would absolutely blow my mind. I could see him coming up with a plan that would hurt Zach and Alex, but I don't think he'd want his kids wrapped up in anything public. Not to mention he's out of it. If Brad had gone 'round the bend and decided to make everyone come back to him, I would think he'd do it when he's around and can be seen as the guy who solves the problem and takes care of the family. All this is doing to solidifying their separation. But even something like that would be a huge reach for him. ... 

 

One thing both Liza Lou and ABC did well was find well-placed people with separate relationships with their targets who either had issues or could be motivated to use their position. They tend to motivate them differently but they can muddy the issue is they would independently have some motivation. (Think Brian Parnell, Cary Chase, Doug Childers, etc). 

 

Along those lines, more than Marc, I'm concerned about his ex. Zach and Will definitely got in his way and took away his control. He had enough time with Marc to have connections for an art show. I can't remember how off the top of my head, but I know he had some money. 

 

As for the Duke... I like the idea; this situation has turned out pretty well for him and is interests. I could see him being pretty concerned about ME. If this hadn't happened, Alex would have gone back to Boston, with ME taking up his place in society, she would have been in a great position to make life pretty challenging for him. Now with people not sure about her roll with the gutter press, and the unrefined, hysterical way she was portrayed, she'll be forced to behave very carefully, she can't keep ending up in the press without incurring social harm, so she has to be pretty careful of scandal and Alex doesn't trust her. On top of that Alex is back in London. 

 

My current half-baked thought is that maybe blackmailing Zach wasn't supposed to work. I think it would be hard to count on Zach buying Trevor's story without knowing Zach very, very well given the oddity of having Trevor be family's mouth piece, even if you buy anyone in that family being willing to risk incurring Will's wrath. However, it probably is known that Zach has relied on Will in difficult situations - and that Will's first call would be Wade on this. Maybe Trevor is a false flag. The drugs may be a distraction, or a frame-up, or something else. I do think that the connection between Zach and the drugs is what the master-mind is behind - and that it would have happened with or without Will. 

 

Let me preface this last thought with saying while I would find this entertaining, I would be amazingly surprised if anything like it were true. Nana has plenty of reasons to want Liza Lou destroyed. She knows about the Trevor issue, she helped with the banker. She knows Will is persistent and would find out what happened whether the blackmail worked or not  - that gets Will and Wade on board with destroying ED. The ham-handed removal of JJ may be designed to separate ME from ED. The appearance of a threat to the family get JP on board. 

 

I still think ABC's youngest would be primed to play a roll, as may the other son to avoid treason. The former chairman of Triton, the father, may also be willing to payback the black ED provided Brad. 

 

 

Ha... you know who it is? The widow of JJs skating coach! Here's what happened: she decided these guys killed her husband, and we really don't know one way or the other there. She gets her Dad's medical files which gives her, between Brad, Robbie and Wade pretty much all of the information needed to screw with these guys pretty effectively, to find the right people to make their own attacks. And you probably don't need much money if the goal is to get the whole family taking shots at itself. 

Fascinating... you get an A for effort, for sure. All this speculation is fun, isn't it? I think it's time for a new chapter

[mmike1969]

1) I didn't spill everything.

2) I would never thought it was Brad doing this. Of course my tin foil body armour is not as fancy as Headstall's so...

3) the answer to the question of "who benefits from all this?" Has not been answered yet. We find the answer to that will tell us who the Black Widow is

4) Maybe it's Ace. He's got to be a bitter middle aged man since he's already divorced and a pusher of grapes not suitable to be raisins.

Edited August 26, 2015 by mmike1969

[mmike1969]

Hmm. The wife of JJ's coach would be a widow in the technical sense that ED is not.

But as others have said, so would ABC.

And so would Private Tim's BFF Tony's mom.

[methodwriter85]

What beef would Tony's mother possibly have with the family? She pretty much knew that Sam was using her as his beard, and the Cramptons/Schluters helped her get on great financial ground after Sam died. Tony and his sister had an affluent upbringing because of that family.

 

It'd be interesting if this was somebody who went way back. Like Classic CAP- CAP, 1968, The Land Whore- back.

[impunity]

Fascinating... you get an A for effort, for sure. 

 

I think it's time for a new chapter

 

I agree! Our young Grienne is definitely not  subscribing to our  "don't reach too high and let others do the work" philosophy. Oh wait, that's kind of the point of it.

 

Yes!

 

1) I didn't spill everything.

2) I would never thought it was Brad doing this. Of course my tin foil body armour is not as fancy as Headstall's so...

3) the answer to the question of "who benefits from all this?" Has not been answered yet. We find the answer to that will tell us who the Black Widow is

4) Maybe it's Ace. He's got to be a bitter middle aged man since he's already divorced and a pusher of grapes not suitable to be raisins.

 

1) You mean there's more?  

2) His is definitely fancier. Yours seems to be going more for function than form.

3) More lessons from your dubious past.  

4) 

 

What beef would Tony's mother possibly have with the family?

 

It'd be interesting if this was somebody who went way back. Like Classic CAP- CAP, 1968, The Land Whore- back.

 

Ok, it has to be said...Italian beef! (Sorry, couldn't stop myself.)

 

Thomas Hartford! Introduced back into the story, surprise dinner guest, (sex with Stef and JP?), then...nothing. Maybe he's doping JP with anti-Viagra so he can steal Stef back? Now there's a paranoid speculation. Ha! 

Edited August 26, 2015 by impunity

[Kitt]

I couldn't picture Nana being so ham fisted.  If her goal was to bring Wade and Will onboard to bring ED even lower than they have currently delegated her, all she would have had to do is ask them.  

 

That is not saying that Nana couldn't be behind it all, but I just think that any plot she would come up with would be a lot more subtle and sophisticated.

[mmike1969]

Okay: to add to the list of known Widows thanks to Kitt. -->

 

1) The Wife of JJ's Coach.

2) ABC.

3) Tony's mom.

4) Nana.

5) * ED

 

Tin foil mode: I'd just realized who would benefit the MOST with Zach playing football and dumping Will --> Wally Hayes

[Kitt]

Wally might reap the largest benefit from Zach dumping Will and going to the NFL, but I can't see him doing it in this manor. His biggest objection to Will is what being exposed as gay would do to Zach's career. A drugging issue before his first official game would be almost as bad. And while Wally may now have the sort of funds to make stuff like this happen, I doubt he is well enough versed in wielding power to make it happen.

 

 

While technically a widower Brad should be added to the list, as should John Carullo. 

[impunity]

I think we may be getting a little sidetracked in the definition of "black widow" here. Metaphorically, a black widow is a woman (I think we can extend to gay man here) who engineers her (or his) own widowhood by seducing then killing her (or his) husband/lover/partner. Therefore, we shouldn't be looking for someone who is already a widow(er), but rather someone who is looking to become one.

 

I'm still voting for Marc! He insinuates himself into Brad's life as the perfect (and vulnerable) boyfriend, gets Brad to alienate the family (especially his sons/heirs), gets himself inserted as a major legatee in Brad's will...you get the picture.

Edited August 26, 2015 by impunity

[Headstall]

You know, the thing that still makes the most sense, no matter how much fun it is to speculate, is that ME was the one who benefited most from JJ and Alex being exposed. She warned JJ, and ME doesn't make empty threats. We were all waiting to see what she would do. Enter Elizabeth, who wants to regain some importance and revenge, the ultimate Mommy Dearest. She doesn't give a rat's ass about JJ's career, and keeping Will occupied with his own drama does make sense. Except that Will is not self centered enough to play into this. Her control over Hammer makes sense. Trevor as her pawn makes sense, and isolating the family members makes sense. The fly in the ointment is Will finding out the reason Zach dumped him. Wasn't supposed to happen. Wade believes it is ED, and he knows her as well as anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was involved, but for now, it seems like ED is the best fit. Argggh... this is driving me crazy. Okay, talk among your selves while I curl up in a corner, and play with my action figures

[mmike1969]

1) The Wife of JJ's Coach.

2) ABC.

3) Tony's mom.

4) Nana.

5) * ED

6) Brad

7) John C

 

This is CAP. Since when does making sense ever made a storyline?

 

That's why I say it's someone else!

[methodwriter85]

I really don't think the "widow" is literal.

[Headstall]

Wally might reap the largest benefit from Zach dumping Will and going to the NFL, but I can't see him doing it in this manor. His biggest objection to Will is what being exposed as gay would do to Zach's career. A drugging issue before his first official game would be almost as bad. And while Wally may now have the sort of funds to make stuff like this happen, I doubt he is well enough versed in wielding power to make it happen.

 

 

While technically a widower Brad should be added to the list, as should John Carullo. 

I'm a little confused with John Carullo being on the list. Am I missing something obvious? What would he have to gain from Will and Zach ending? Or any of this. He owes this family, starting when Matt paid for him to go home for Christmas, during their Stanford days....

[Kitt]

We were listing the "widows" and John lost his firefighter boyfriend in the towers.  So far as I can see he has no reason to hurt the family and in fact seems to be getting tighter with them on a daily basis.

[Headstall]

We were listing the "widows" and John lost his firefighter boyfriend in the towers.  So far as I can see he has no reason to hurt the family and in fact seems to be getting tighter with them on a daily basis.

Okay... got it... now it makes sense

[Grienne]

 

 

Thomas Hartford! Introduced back into the story, surprise dinner guest, (sex with Stef and JP?), then...nothing. Maybe he's doping JP with anti-Viagra so he can steal Stef back? Now there's a paranoid speculation. Ha! 

 

Ok, so I will concede that the end goal would have to be unfathomable at the moment, but how about this: JP.

 

A truly remarkable number of people who've been in relationships with JP are dead. And while I'm not sure if its required in the definition, the term black widow does usually refer to a serial widow (er) . Perhaps he has more on his mind then the war, and he is having a physical manifestation of the stress he's under executing a remarkably convoluted plan.  

[methodwriter85]

Maybe JP has an evil split personality, and said split personality is the one doing all this.

[impunity]

Ok, so I will concede that the end goal would have to be unfathomable at the moment, but how about this: JP.

 

A truly remarkable number of people who've been in relationships with JP are dead. And while I'm not sure if its required in the definition, the term black widow does usually refer to a serial widow (er) . Perhaps he has more on his mind then the war, and he is having a physical manifestation of the stress he's under executing a remarkably convoluted plan.

You're going to need a tinfoil TENT if you're making paranoid speculations about the grand old...well, Grand. But as loopy suggestions go, this is one of the best! Edited August 26, 2015 by impunity

[mmike1969]

Maybe JP has an evil split personality, and said split personality is the one doing all this.

That would explain why JP can't get as excited as much.

[Headstall]

That would explain why JP can't get as excited as much.

True... but all kidding aside Grienne wins the supreme Loopy award for this one... I'm making your tinfoil suit now, Grienne... it will be lovely ... There is no way in hell that JP would hurt his grand kids... even if he was supremely angry at them. Just look at how many chances he gave Brian before he accidentally shot himself in the head... twice . Unless... maybe he was inhabited by an alien ...you don't think? ...nah... going to go curl up in my corner now

[B1ue]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was involved, but for now, it seems like ED is the best fit. Argggh... this is driving me crazy. Okay, talk among your selves while I curl up in a corner, and play with my action figures

The only part that makes me question her role is Trevor. Why would she burn him like that? Yes, he had some authority as Wade's cousin, and his skill was helpful with handling Zach, but was that enough to offset losing him as an asset? He only had a small part in the diversion, not even a big part, and not even the main event. And clearly she (or whoever) knew Trevor would be exposed, because they had back ups and contingencies already in place.

 

It just seems sloppy, and I expect better of my villains.

 

Edit: Something I missed a couple chapters ago, but I'm curious why they were dismissive of John being in a band? Yeah, they might not be good *now*, but like anything else, only way to get good is by being persistently bad long enough to get better. And John might just have the tenacity to do it, since this would be something he'd have that was wholly his, not given to him by his family.

Edited August 27, 2015 by B1ue