Black Widow (Story Discussion)

[Headstall]

The only part that makes me question her role is Trevor. Why would she burn him like that? Yes, he had some authority as Wade's cousin, and his skill was helpful with handling Zach, but was that enough to offset losing him as an asset? He only had a small part in the diversion, not even a big part, and not even the main event. And clearly she (or whoever) knew Trevor would be exposed, because they had back ups and contingencies already in place.

It just seems sloppy, and I expect better of my villains.

Good point, but the premise was that he wasn't supposed to be found out. It was stressed to Zach that those pictures would be released... whoever it was underestimated the connection between Will and Zach, but even so, had Zach watched by his roommate as a precaution. Yeah there are maybe backups in place, but as Kitt pointed out earlier, ED threw her own daughter and mother to the wolves, and that's putting it nicely, so Trevor would be acceptable as collateral damage if he was found out. And whose to say she will lose him as an asset... unless he accidentally shoots himself in the head... twice...

Edited August 27, 2015 by Headstall

[mmike1969]

Unless it was deliberately kept sloppy so no one got really hurt (Except Zach).

[Headstall]

Unless it was deliberately kept sloppy so no one got really hurt (Except Zach).

My brain hurts. I don't see it as sloppy. BW separated the family, and scattered them across the globe, split up JJ and Alex for good, split up Will and Zach, maybe for good... which is a strike at the heart of the family. I see one main flaw. Will found out about Trevor, because Zach couldn't keep the secret he was supposed to, despite the threat of exposure of the photos and the loss of his career. I think it was reasonable to think Zach would choose not to take the risk. Honestly though, I haven't got a clue what's going on...

[B1ue]

And as Tim pointed out, the odds of it actually sticking to Zach is minimal. No, the only one who would be hurt would be Trevor, as the focus of Will's entire ire.

[Headstall]

And as Tim pointed out, the odds of it actually sticking to Zach is minimal. No, the only one who would be hurt would be Trevor, as the focus of Will's entire ire.

I think the photos of him and Will would definitely stick to Zach... maybe not the meth... and this meeting coming up should let Will see that the picture is much bigger than Trevor. Trevor may end up on their side before this is all over, with this family's persuasive skills...

[B1ue]

Which is what I mean by burning Trevor. He was either going to suffer a mischief, or he was going to be bound tight enough into their web instead of hers that she wouldn't be able to use what leverage she had on him effectively.

[Timothy M.]

Such wonderful speculations should earn us another early chapter, methinks.  

Edited August 27, 2015 by Timothy M.

[methodwriter85]

 

 

Edit: Something I missed a couple chapters ago, but I'm curious why they were dismissive of John being in a band? Yeah, they might not be good *now*, but like anything else, only way to get good is by being persistently bad long enough to get better. And John might just have the tenacity to do it, since this would be something he'd have that was wholly his, not given to him by his family.

 

Because they're a bunch of a snotty, judgmental teenagers making fun of someone for kind of sucking at something even though they're all into it? It's very high school. Like, I had a buddy in high school on the track team...he was a MUCH better runner than a lacrosse player, and people made of him because he got a lacrosse tattoo. To be fair, that was in 11th grade, and the next year he pretty much dropped lacrosse when he realized that he was better at running.

 

Also, keep in mind that Will is a guy who was considered someone that could've gone pro at surfing at 13, and Zach has probably had buzz around him as a football player since middle school. JJ at 17 is the youngest U.S. Figure Skating champ since the 1960's or something. They're all phenoms in some way, which is why a regular teenager in some regular lame band is going to get some laughs.

Edited August 27, 2015 by methodwriter85

[impunity]

Such wonderful speculations should earn us another early chapter, methinks.

How is Mark defining "early", btw? Has anyone figured out a discernable pattern?

 

For a while he was posting this and Valiant on Thursdays and Fridays but the early chapters have thrown off the rhythm.

Edited August 28, 2015 by impunity

[Kitt]

Where is our resident chapter counter???     GLH  are you ok???

[Timothy M.]

How is Mark defining "early", btw? Has anyone figured out a discernable pattern?  

 

I don't know, but he posted a chapter.

and said this in the chapter note:

 

Hellishly busy time...beginning of a semester.  No time to even respond to all the reviews and to weigh in on the forum...even though it's been extremely entertaining!

 

And it was a bloody marvelous chapter too ! Answering most of the speculations and with some great Wade, Will and JJ moments. So thanks to all the amusing tinfoil users.

[methodwriter85]

Another catch I hope people got- did anyone else realize that Mark just introduced camera phones into CAP-world when they showed the picture of John with an earring? In 2003, camera cell phones basically exploded...the technology had been there since the late 1990's, but it wasn't mainstream tech until 2003 and everybody suddenly had one. IPods should be next- they were around since 2001, but no one really got them until late 2003 when ITunes and Ipod Nanos came around.

 

 

How fun was that..... I don't the AOC in the various places JJ & ME 'did it', but how beautiful is the allegation that her husband's alleged lover was really hers.

 

The really funny thing is that if Mary Ellen had been 19 instead of 21 in late 2002, it all would have been perfectly legal in Virginia.

 

The rule in Virginia is that if you are under 18 but over 15, you can consent to having sex with somebody within 3 years of your age.

[davewri]

Way to go JJ !

JJ is going for the jugular.    This story is getting better each chapter.

 

[impunity]

And it was a bloody marvelous chapter too ! Answering most of the speculations and with some great Wade, Will and JJ moments. So thanks to all the amusing tinfoil users.

I agree. That was a truly excellent chapter!

 

On a plane that's about to take off (sadly, not as nice as Stef's ) so will have to review later on.

[Headstall]

I agree. That was a truly excellent chapter!

 

On a plane that's about to take off (sadly, not as nice as Stef's ) so will have to review later on.

I have doffed my tinfoil suit for now... no more speculating at this time because I am just going to enjoy JJ's coup de grace... okay, technically not a deathblow, but still worthy of our adulation for the little man with the big gun ... I wonder what will happen next. ME will probably...wait, that's dangerously close to speculating... maybe I'll just slip my TF hat back on... just the hat...

Edited August 28, 2015 by Headstall

[impunity]

I have doffed my tinfoil suit for now... no more speculating at this time because I am just going to enjoy JJ's coup de grace... okay, technically not a deathblow, but still worthy of our adulation for the little man with the big gun ... I wonder what will happen next. ME will probably...wait, that's dangerously close to speculating... maybe I'll just slip my TF hat back on... just the hat...

I never did manage to don a tinfoil suit, mostly because of lack of the skill to make one, but I just realized that with all the speculation about Will's plans, ME, ED, and the BW, we never managed to speculate about JJ. I'm kind of glad because it was brilliant when it happened.

 

Personally, I don't think ME is going to get a chance to retaliate; the Grangers will sequester her at Bridgemont and try to contain the damage.

[Headstall]

I never did manage to don a tinfoil suit, mostly because of lack of the skill to make one, but I just realized that with all the speculation about Will's plans, ME, ED, and the BW, we never managed to speculate about JJ. I'm kind of glad because it was brilliant when it happened.

 

Personally, I don't think ME is going to get a chance to retaliate; the Grangers will sequester her at Bridgemont and try to contain the damage.

I think we, like the family, figured JJ would leave it to someone else to take care of while he decorated, and nursed his wounds. Mark was brilliant at keeping him under the radar, and off of ours. It totally came out of left field, and thus, had maximum effect. Shiny hats off to JJ... and to Mark

[Northern Dutch Guy]

I guess we will find soon  a part of the story from Brad's POV.

 

So far JJ and Will played a beautifull and surprising part of the story. Young guys finding out bad times and coping with them ... creative and ... not going down when problems arise... but heads up and retalliating if neccesary...

Mark writes/creates strong personalities... in his stories. I really like that.

 

And in the case of Will and maybe JJ ... they were so much younger in the past stories... and now... they grow... grow up... and cope with new situations on their own or together with support from each other...

 

If they can cope yet on their own agaist Wade's Mom/sister... and their scheme... and their contacts... We will see... But JJ is already thinking out of their box... And It turns back on them...

Now I guess some of us want Mark to safe Zach and his carreer... and in the long run ... that Will and Zach will be together again... long term...

[impunity]

I guess we will find soon a part of the story from Brad's POV.

We haven't had Brad's POV in this book, have we? I am quite enjoying watching Brad be disfunctional from Will's, Wade's and JJ's perspectives, without actually hearing from Brad.

 

He'd only bitch about Will and be sappy about Marc, anyway.

Edited August 28, 2015 by impunity

[Kitt]

Personally, I don't think ME is going to get a chance to retaliate; the Grangers will sequester her at Bridgemont and try to contain the damage.

 

I am not sure sequestering her on the country estate would work in this case. She has been named in a lawsuit that would be almost impossible to defend herself against unless she actually testifies and manages to lie well enough to get past the Virginia courts. What does the law demand in this case? I know she cannot be forced to testify on her own behalf, but does she have to appear? If she does, and chooses not to, will an arrest warrent be issued? Then what are the international extradition laws like? Would English law enforcement make the arrest and send her back?

 

Ok guys - one of you have to be familiar with this branch of the law. Spill!

[mmike1969]

Hmmm. Shouldn't JJ be 17 when ME took advantage of JJ? He was born in dec 1985.

[impunity]

I am not sure sequestering her on the country estate would work in this case. She has been named in a lawsuit that would be almost impossible to defend herself against unless she actually testifies and manages to lie well enough to get past the Virginia courts. What does the law demand in this case? I know she cannot be forced to testify on her own behalf, but does she have to appear? If she does, and chooses not to, will an arrest warrent be issued? Then what are the international extradition laws like? Would English law enforcement make the arrest and send her back?

 

Ok guys - one of you have to be familiar with this branch of the law. Spill!

I don't think you can equate testifying in court with a further attack on JJ. I expect everything ME says in the courtroom will be carefully scripted by the Granger lawyers. However, keeping her at Bridgemont limits her contact with both ED and the media, either of which could escalate the war and further damage her reputation.

 

(Interesting to consider the parallels of George and Caroline several generations earlier. )

 

Hmmm. Shouldn't JJ be 17 when ME took advantage of JJ? He was born in dec 1985.

They had sex on 30 November. Edited August 29, 2015 by impunity

[mmike1969]

Ah. Well then it's good .

 

I am curious as to wonder: Did ME and The Black Widow actually think the family was just going to sit back and NOT retaliate?

 

Or were they just so used to getting their way for so long that the possibility of a counter-strike was just outside their thought process?

[methodwriter85]

Hmmm. Shouldn't JJ be 17 when ME took advantage of JJ? He was born in dec 1985.

 

The threesome in Virginia happened during Thanksgiving weekend...JJ was a week or so short of his 17th birthday. In any event, it doesn't really matter, because ME stupidly had sex with him in one of the few states where the Age of Consent is 18, the only exception being if you are over 15 and your partner is within three years of your age. (ME being 21 when it happened, she doesn't fall within the exception.)

 

Interestingly, I can have sex with a 16-year old until my 30th birthday in December in Delaware. (Not that I would...ewww.) Recently, there was an attorney who got into trouble for having a threesome with a 16-year and a 24-year old...the 24-year old recruited the 16-year old, because the attorney wanted to have sex with a guy in high school. The attorney was in his early/mid-30's- if he had basically been just a few years younger, it would have been legal. 16 and 17-year olds in DE can have sex with someone over 18 and under 30.

 

But it's interesting how these laws vary. Personally, I really think the Age of Consent law should be 16, because really...we can trust a 16-year old to drive a car, but we can't trust them to make decisions about sex? Seriously? I remember Dan Savage went on this diatribe one time, about how skewed American society is about this...on one hand, we turn then-teenagers like Britney Spears or pretend teenagers like Katie Holmes into major sex symbols, but on the other hand, we shriek and shout about "protect the child!" whenever a 16-year old girl has sex with her 20-year old boyfriend.

 

In any event, it's brilliant because MaryEllen basically did to herself- she never thought at any time that pissing off an underage guy that you had sex with could lead to some consequences, and she can't really retaliate because she needs to have JJ drop the charges. And ME's reputation is basically toast- just the accusation of being a statutory rapist can permanently damage a rep. If she ever had any political aspirations she's screwed.

Edited August 29, 2015 by methodwriter85

[impunity]

In any event, it's brilliant because MaryEllen basically did to herself- she never thought at any time that pissing off an underage guy that you had sex with could lead to some consequences, and she can't really retaliate because she needs to have JJ drop the charges. And ME's reputation is basically toast- just the accusation of being a statutory rapist can permanently damage a rep. If she ever had any political aspirations she's screwed.

I love the JJ has shifted the focus from himself as "home wrecker" to victim. ME can't even claim that Alex was also involved with JJ after the Tatler feature.

Edited August 29, 2015 by impunity