Black Widow (Story Discussion)

[impunity]

So, Mary Ellen had a lot to tell, but I'm not sure we heard any of it. 

[methodwriter85]

Brad and Will really do seem to differ in terms of the type of men they're drawn towards. Brad likes a challenge, which is why it never worked with people like Max, Father Tim, and Marc. Will doesn't really need a challenge, but what he really values is honesty. Tony is a two-faced guy who pretends he's full of integrity when he's really not, which is why it never worked him. Zach never pretended to be anything but a mercenary guy with a lazer-beam focus on getting to the NFL, and I think Will was attracted to the fact that Zach was both honest about his faults and pretty capable of stepping up as an emotional support when he needed one

 

[mmike1969]

Re chapter 48:

 

So Darius and Will slut it up to annoy and change JJ. I just don't see how this actually works. 

 

Yes he tried to whine to people he thought was in his corner and JP put JJ in his place. But this is no different on how he's been acting like since PMS and even Bloodlines. 

 

And yes, I'm in the camp of John C and JJ should just fuck. Why? Because these two characters reminds me of ME when I was younger and had a serious crush on this guy...

 

Chapter 47:

Getting seriously annoyed with Will and his attitude towards what he perceived as lower class accommodations...

 

I can see him as one of those douchbags with money: no real class and a bunch of fake friends hanging around him because he buys the food and drinks. Kind of like Pharma Bro. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

Re: Will. See, the funny thing about Will is that he's pretty quick to call out JJ's snobbery, but doesn't recognize his own. (Man, I wish Private Tim was still here.) As for the plan, I think the idea is to show JJ that this bubble he's put himself in where he's the most important thing around isn't real. He's not as important or as special as he thinks he is, and he can't use the perks of his family and at the same time be nasty to them. By having Darius and Will take up all the attention at what was in JJ's mind supposed to be his starring event, it is supposed to put him back in his place.

 

 

 

[impunity]

I found chapter 48 thoroughly entertaining. I'm pretty sure Darius's and Will's sluttishness was entirely their own improvisation and not part of Stef's original plan. (Although, Mark may have had a subtle hand in it. )  And while I agree with @centexhairysub that the stunt was probably a bit over-the-top mean, JJ did need a lesson in not being such a narcissistic snob. There's a reason his first love was a British aristocrat: no one else was good enough for him. Also, I went back and checked: Will offered Carullo a bedroom in the condo before JJ announced he was moving in. And JJ didn't have any interest in Carullo sexually until he saw him fucking Will.  

 

Addendum: A few more points: JJ didn't seem to have a problem with Matt's and Wade's having slept with Alex. He's always looked down on Carullo for being "working class." And Carullo became "family" in a way when Will figured out his boyfriend had helped them in the tower on 9/11.

Edited September 17, 2017 by impunity

[Headstall]

Now, see... I took Darius at face value in this. No matter what the plan was, he wasn't going to 'use Bellona' and chuck her away once they got their point across. I saw real integrity there, and a good example for JJ if he wanted to really open his eyes... and if he actually cares about Bellona. Darius had class enough to back up his attention to this older woman. I get the impression she's lonely in her tower, and Darius is not a stupid guy. He was honest and forthcoming... all while showing JJ they could fit into his 'world' just as easily as he does, and to get off his high and hurtful horse.

 

As I said in my review, I like JJ, and I believe I get him, and I don't think him a monster, but he needs this kick in the pants. He's been rude and 'superior' enough to make John want to move out... and as impunity pointed out, he is Will and the family's guest. Whatever the reason, his actions are seen by the family as crass, unwarranted, and snobbish to the extreme... not the way the family treats guests (if JJ treated his guests like the family he would have screwed Carullo by now  )... hence this intervention. If he keeps on the way he has, he will always be at odds with the family, and the fact Stef and JP are in on this shows it clearly.

 

Will, on the other hand, was just being Will, and anyone who knows me understands I hope he grows out of his sluttish ways. That said (and I hold little hope  ),  I don't believe his hookup with Christian was part of the plan. It was an opportunity, and it had the benefit of further galling JJ. Will's tendency for self indulgence paid off twofold here). I believe they were sent there for the sole purpose of knocking JJ off that horse... mission accomplished, and in a very entertaining way. Cheers....

Edited September 17, 2017 by Headstall

[Timothy M.]

8 hours ago, impunity said:

And while I agree with @centexhairysub that the stunt was probably a bit over-the-top mean, JJ did need a lesson in not being such a narcissistic snob.

 

I also agree with @centexhairysub about this being a very harsh wake-up call for JJ, which may backfire in unexpected ways. I'm wondering why no one has followed up on JJ's need for therapy after all the stuff he's been through. He clearly has massive anger issues and low self-esteem which he hides behind snobbish manners. I've never liked him, but he does seem to have been abandoned by the family for long stretches of time. But I wonder if there's been stuff going on which hasn't been described in detail where JJ has rebuffed every attempt to talk to him. JP's words seem to indicate so, and he rarely deals out such severe judgement without good cause.

 

  I can't help     about the 'broach' gift. (e.g. She obliged me by opening the box and smiled broadly at the beautiful fleur de lys broach it contained. ) Isn't it spelled brooch ? Does autocorrect strike again ?  

[methodwriter85]

I think we're supposed to take it for granted that JJ is in therapy. JJ mentions when 9/11 hits that he's on some kind of anti-anxiety medication.

[Timothy M.]

On 9/18/2017 at 1:46 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I think we're supposed to take it for granted that JJ is in therapy. JJ mentions when 9/11 hits that he's on some kind of anti-anxiety medication.

 

Hmm, if so, why doesn't he think about it in any way ? Either as in the person being useless (if JJ does not want to deal with matters) or supportive (if he feels vindicated by whatever they discuss). I think he was in therapy when living on the west coast, but no one has bothered to help him find someone in N.Y. 

[Mark Arbour]

My comments on Chapter 48:  

 

I forgot how much fun you guys are.  I think part of the problem here is that, with a serial story, it's sometimes difficult to get all the thoughts out in one chapter.  In addition, I've been busy as f**k so I haven't been able to post chapters fast enough to fully explain the rationale behind this. 

 

I think it's safe to say that JJ has been acting like a total douche.  He had absolutely no business treating Maddy the way he did, he's been a jerk to Will and most of the other family members, and he's been pointedly rude to Carullo. That he set himself in New York, education at all, is just lovely, but it isn't an excuse or even a reason to excuse the way he's acted.  If performing well in life's duties was a plausible excuse for asshole behavior, the Will-haters out there would have no leg to stand on. 

 

We've seen JJ do this before, where he builds a cocoon around himself and in that cocoon is a world that isn't real.  Outside pressure doesn't seem to get through to him.  The only thing that does it, it seems, is if he's shocked out of his complacency.  That's what JP, Stef, et al. were trying to do.

[Mark Arbour]

On 9/16/2017 at 11:39 PM, mmike1969 said:

 

 

Chapter 47:

Getting seriously annoyed with Will and his attitude towards what he perceived as lower class accommodations...

 

I can see him as one of those douchbags with money: no real class and a bunch of fake friends hanging around him because he buys the food and drinks. Kind of like Pharma Bro. 

 

I think Will's biggest problem with the motel was the external door. Will may be many things, but the Pharma Bro persona is definitely not him. 

[methodwriter85]

2 hours ago, Mark Arbour said:

My comments on Chapter 48:  

 

I think it's safe to say that JJ has been acting like a total douche.  He had absolutely no business treating Maddy the way he did, he's been a jerk to Will and most of the other family members, and he's been pointedly rude to Carullo. That he set himself in New York, education at all, is just lovely, but it isn't an excuse or even a reason to excuse the way he's acted.  If performing well in life's duties was a plausible excuse for asshole behavior, the Will-haters out there would have no leg to stand on. 

 

We've seen JJ do this before, where he builds a cocoon around himself and in that cocoon is a world that isn't real.  Outside pressure doesn't seem to get through to him.  The only thing that does it, it seems, is if he's shocked out of his complacency.  That's what JP, Stef, et al. were trying to do.

 

You and I have definitely had our disagreements in the past 9 years when it comes to CAP, but I've been pretty much on the same page with you when it comes to JJ's character development. (Okay, I wasn't happy about JJ dropping skating given that I had planned JJ's career out to the 2006 Olympics and I really thought JJ was going to get his GED so he could focus on skating full-time, but whatever.)

 

The general theme to JJ's character development seems to be about breaking him out of whatever cocoon he builds for himself. The first was his skating life with an increasingly erratic mother, which distracted from the family's disintegrating relationships back in 2000. Then he had to face the reality of his coach molesting him. And then in 9/11, he lost his mother altogether, who was the person he could pretty much always hide behind.The second was his Streak era in 2002- early 2003, when he was riding high in his Boston days and loving life as Alex's "princess." It was all fine and dandy, but it was never going to last and Alex may have been pretty but he is never going to be the type of love interest that challenges someone and makes them grow as people. Now, JJ has built up this New York City fashion world for himself as some kind of tame Sex in the City where people are cast in his mind as certain character parts. John Carullo is like his rowdy roommate who belongs on Queer As Folk, with Bellona Carter as his stern mentor, and Patrick Christian as his Mr. Big. JJ seems to be thinking of himself as pretty hot shit who can do no wrong. (You KNOW JJ pictures himself as the Carrie Bradshaw in all this.) This is where Will and Darius's plan to knock him down a peg seems to come from. Like, "Yo, you ain't no Carrie Bradshaw. You're the fucking Charlotte. I'm the Carrie, and Darius is the Samantha! FACE!"

 

Okay, not that Will and Darius watch Sex and The City or would have an idea what any of that means, but come on. JJ probably has like every season of that show on his TiVo, if not DVD box sets.

 

Anyway, there does seem to be a reason to all of this. JJ's ice princess persona is fun, but there is a real person under there, and we do get glimpses of him, but we have to get through his layers. And you can see the character growth pretty clearly, even when he's back to being a brat. 15-year old JJ told the entire family that there wasn't any point of him going to school, because he was going to be on a Wheaties box by the time he was 20. 17-year old JJ decided, after long consideration, that he was going to take his National Championship title and walk away from that world, because the fiasco with Alex made him realize what price he was going to have to play to keep playing the game.

 

In other words, when JJ gets comfortable and settles himself down into a role/world that he doesn't want to leave even though it's based on sand, Mark has a tendency to come up with ways for JJ to be zapped out of his contentment. And it's often pretty needed. For a 17-year old guy who has traveled the world, JJ seems really uninterested in life's adventures. Most recent example was the black out- instead of having fun and enjoying the big party that happened like his grandfather's did, JJ just bitched and seemed miserable. He has a pretty narrow set of the kind of people he wants to associate with and the kinds of things he wants to do with the people he associates with. JJ will miss out on a whole hell of a lot of interesting stuff if he's always like that. Hell, when I was JJ's age, I once walked into a room with group of people who were doing a live-action roleplay of vampires because their sign said they were doing comedy improv. Can't get much more interesting than that!

 

I kind of always take what Mark does to JJ as JJ being nudged out of that shell, in a relatively realistic way.

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Timothy M.]

6 hours ago, Mark Arbour said:

We've seen JJ do this before, where he builds a cocoon around himself and in that cocoon is a world that isn't real.  Outside pressure doesn't seem to get through to him.  The only thing that does it, it seems, is if he's shocked out of his complacency.  That's what JP, Stef, et al. were trying to do.

 

But why does he have to be 'shocked out of his complacency' and come out of his comfortable cocoon? Is he doing anyone any real harm by being in there? OK, so he's rude to Carullo, but that guy would get on my nerves too, and if he simply left JJ alone and ignored him, there wouldn't be a problem - hmm or would JJ seek him out just to be rude?.  

 

As for being rude to Will and the rest of the family, it seems to me JJ isn't the one getting in touch with them, so why don't they ignore him too? And JJ may have no right to grab Maddy and shout at her, but if that is the main reason they're harassing him, then I find them vindictive rather than constructive in approach. She'll have to learn some manners too, especially concerning noise level, if she wants to be in JP's presence. But I guess that will be in ten years time when she's a teen. 

 

JJ may be a douche but that's nothing new. And in the past when they've gotten through to him with shock treatment, did they follow it up with some consistent help and kindness ? (Apart from the time he was in hospital after cutting himself.) If their reason was worry over JJ's mental health and him acting like this because he's lonely and depressive - or worse, being abused again, then yes, their tactics might make sense. But if their only reason is that they want him to be polite to people who try to butt into his cocoon, then I may end up siding completely with @centexhairysub  about the wrongness of their approach. 

 

Right now I'm undecided, mostly because JP condones their approach. But even he has been wrong from time to time - and in fact, none of them were close enough to JJ or made the effort to approach him and gain his trust and find out why he was acting like this when he first developed his hostile character. It was only by accident they found out what was wrong, so I'd expect them to cut him some slack this time, or at least make a real effort to find out why he was acting up. Wasn't that was JP told Brad and Robbie after Will wrecked their belongings? 'This is what happens when your kid thinks you don't love him' or something similar?  Again, has JJ done any serious harm to anybody with his behavior? If they feel sorry for Carullo, simply set him up in another apartment so he's free to leave.

 

On the other hand, I dislike JJ a lot, so if you're out to bitch-slap him, it's OK with me. I just want them to have a proper reason to do it.  

Edited September 22, 2017 by Timothy M.

[centexhairysub]

16 hours ago, Mark Arbour said:

My comments on Chapter 48:  

 

I forgot how much fun you guys are.  I think part of the problem here is that, with a serial story, it's sometimes difficult to get all the thoughts out in one chapter.  In addition, I've been busy as f**k so I haven't been able to post chapters fast enough to fully explain the rationale behind this. 

 

I think it's safe to say that JJ has been acting like a total douche.  He had absolutely no business treating Maddy the way he did, he's been a jerk to Will and most of the other family members, and he's been pointedly rude to Carullo. That he set himself in New York, education at all, is just lovely, but it isn't an excuse or even a reason to excuse the way he's acted.  If performing well in life's duties was a plausible excuse for asshole behavior, the Will-haters out there would have no leg to stand on. 

 

We've seen JJ do this before, where he builds a cocoon around himself and in that cocoon is a ,world that isn't real.  Outside pressure doesn't seem to get through to him.  The only thing that does it, it seems, is if he's shocked out of his complacency.  That's what JP, Stef, et al. were trying to do.

 

 

OMG, I feel like I am in a scene from the Godfather!

 

I have spent the last few days re-reading the last two books and I just don't feel that JJ has acted like a total douche.  I just don't see where anything you all are referencing is really born out.  Yes, JJ is rude to Carullo; but once again, I don't think it is because he is being snobby.  JJ likes Carullo, can't figure out how to relate to him plus has to see a parade of guys sleep with him including Will, Zach, Brad, and that skanky guy that Brad slept with previously.  Yes, he has been rude to Will on the phone; but he was upset about Buzz, then found out that Will had told everyone that he gave Buzz and blowjob, and worse yet, was not good at it.  I am sorry, but I think that Will's behavior the last two stories has been as bad or worse than JJ, period. 

 

I think part of the problem is that some people are partial to Will and just cannot admit that he does anything wrong.  The fact that he looks older, and sleeps with anything that stops long enough for him   to insert part A into part B, regardless of who is inserting their Part A into Part B; makes some feel he has to be given more leeway. 

 

I completely disagree with the idea that JJ should not have stopped Maddy from tearing around the kitchen screaming; did JJ do it for the right reason, maybe not; but that does not change the fact that she was acting badly and if you don't start getting a child under control at that age, you never will when they are a teenager; been there and done that.  Sorry, but Will got played by Maddy badly with that situation.

 

In the end, I and everyone else have to defer to Mark as this is his creation, and if he really sees JJ like this then whether that has been communicated in a manner that we agree is irrelevant.  Am I liking how this is going, HELL NO...  After reading the last few stories again, I just don't feel that JJ's behavior has warranted this type of reaction at all.  Honestly, in the real world, I truly believe it would be cruel and abusive but this is NOT the real world, it is a magical place brought to us and designed by Mark; and we have to hope that there is a plan somewhere that will explain this sequence.

Edited September 22, 2017 by centexhairysub

[centexhairysub]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:46 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I think we're supposed to take it for granted that JJ is in therapy. JJ mentions when 9/11 hits that he's on some kind of anti-anxiety medication.

 

I am sorry, but I can find nothing in the last two stories that would even imply remotely that JJ is still in therapy or even really had any after leaving the hospital for cutting himself.  And I can tell you that you don't have to be in therapy to get any type of medication in the world of doctor shopping today, and we all know how good JJ is at shopping.

[centexhairysub]

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 12:16 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Brad and Will really do seem to differ in terms of the type of men they're drawn towards. Brad likes a challenge, which is why it never worked with people like Max, Father Tim, and Marc. Will doesn't really need a challenge, but what he really values is honesty. Tony is a two-faced guy who pretends he's full of integrity when he's really not, which is why it never worked him. Zach never pretended to be anything but a mercenary guy with a lazer-beam focus on getting to the NFL, and I think Will was attracted to the fact that Zach was both honest about his faults and pretty capable of stepping up as an emotional support when he needed one

 

 

The problem is that Will is never as honest as he wants others to be; if he was, he would have told Dally about him and Buzz before he did anything.  You know at some point, someone is going to say something and how will Dally feel about hearing it from someone other than Will.   

 

[Grienne]

I have to say I agree with centexhairysub. And ill apologize at the top for my long rambling comments here - but i proceed.

 

Even if you grant the premise that JJ has behaved badly with Carullo, this seems horrifically extreme.  Ill certainly admit im a bit biased, I've always liked JJ. A couple points have made already and i wont rehash them. But a couple things that I find particularly galling I'll highlight. First is that JP has decided that JJ has been horrible, when all he's heard would be a summary of a couple minute conversation between Will and Carullo, and he heard it from Will. He has no idea what the actual story is here - and that seems like something he wouldn't normally just accept. Considering Will's interference is at least partly the problem between JJ and Carullo (I mean him telling Carullo things I don't think he should have and encouraging Carullo to try to spend time with and take JJ out against JJs wishes), Will seems like a particularly bad source for this - and knowing that Will has been a bit involved, you'd think JP would try to get more information. He was unimpressed when no one asked Marie why she wasn't comfortable with Will's friend at the Bastille day show down, this seems pretty similar. JP hasn't spoken to JJ as best we can tell, and no one has asked him what's going on in the apartment. 

 

The second thing, and I think the most cruel, is that they involved Bellona. They could have just asked that she get Will and Darius in, but they told her they were doing this to hurt JJ, at least enough for her to know that JJ being hurt was what she considered to be their "mission accomplished". For such a family focussed group, this confused me. Further, I'm not sure I agree that a 17 year old whose life is in freefall is just doing his normal duties in life by finding a place he can move on in, finding a way to look forward after losing skating, finding the type of school that would be particularly supportive for him and finding his footing in the new York fashion scene. I think it's hard not to be impressed by the way he handled the loss of skating and his first love without much if any guidance - especially considering he wasn't exactly on solid and supportive ground before that. Sure he can be bitchy, but is being bitchy and introverted so great a sin. Hes not cruel, he doesnt seem to be knowingly hurtful, unless im missing something. None of these guys can say that about their behavior. Now his family has decided to essentially take the world he's trying to settle into away from him. How can he have any confidence at all in that world anymore? Outside of something blatantly illegal like murder, rape or assault, I can't think of something that JJ would find more hurtful then what just happened. And the people involved know that. Do we really think Bellona will take JJ seriously anymore? He's tried to find a place where he can exist outside his brothers shadows, whether you think his judgment is fair or not, it's certainly how he feels. He found skating, which took a lot from him and then was taken from him, and now his family decides to take this? 

 

All in all, I'm just confused about the crime here. He has a lot of baggage around his sexuality and sexual encounters. This doesn't seem unreasonable in his shoes. Will is the one that owes JJ a serious apology for the information he disseminated when he knows JJ would never want that. Doubling down on JJs sexual insecurities like this is just torture. I know people are saying maybe stef will at the apartment when he gets home and they can work this out, but I hope not. I can't imagine JJ could possibly be in the right frame of mind to deal with that. 

 

Of course, like others have said, this is Mark's world, and we're lucky to be a part if it. And of course I love this series to a truly ridiculous extent - but I couldn't help but to weigh in on this as it was so shocking to me. I await eagerly the next installment.

[GLH]

On 9/21/2017 at 11:33 PM, Mark Arbour said:

My comments on Chapter 48:  

 

I forgot how much fun you guys are.

From the MOFW department:
I'll just stick to my spreadsheets and post my emojis to the running commentary.

[impunity]

The last time we had this much disagreement, it was something about football. I have no recollection of the details, other than football and shouting were involved. Possibly Zach. Almost definitely Will. And a lot of shouting. 

 

These are fictional characters, people. They have no thoughts, feelings or motivations other than the ones Mark gives them. Maybe we should lighten up a little? 

[centexhairysub]

4 hours ago, impunity said:

The last time we had this much disagreement, it was something about football. I have no recollection of the details, other than football and shouting were involved. Possibly Zach. Almost definitely Will. And a lot of shouting. 

 

These are fictional characters, people. They have no thoughts, feelings or motivations other than the ones Mark gives them. Maybe we should lighten up a little? 

 

Sacrilege!!!

[methodwriter85]

18 hours ago, impunity said:

The last time we had this much disagreement, it was something about football. I have no recollection of the details, other than football and shouting were involved. Possibly Zach. Almost definitely Will. And a lot of shouting. 

 

These are fictional characters, people. They have no thoughts, feelings or motivations other than the ones Mark gives them. Maybe we should lighten up a little? 

 

I've been Mark's beta reader for 9 years now. (Holy shit, am I really not 22 anymore? Geez.) We've had some pretty big disagreements and a couple of times I came close to no longer being on Mark's team because of said disagreements. Sharon (the editor) told me once, "You need to step back a little and remember that this is a fictional soap opera, and that this is all supposed to be fun." So I did eventually learn to step back a little, and I've enjoyed the story a lot more since. Hell, some things I vehemently disagreed with turned out to be some of the best storylines Mark has done. I thought it would be a lame rerun of Brad/Robbie to have Will fall in love with a Hayes football player from Claremont, and I couldn't have possibly been wrong. The Zach/Will coupling has been one of my favorite storylines.

 

JJ's had some pretty dark things happen to him, but I haven't seen JJ's current character arc as being dark. He's just being a spoiled little rich boy trying to make himself feared and admired in a big little pond like New York City, and his family is trying to "check" him, so to speak Basically, he's like a character in teen comedy coming-of-age film who is sure that they have everything all figured out, and they need a wake-up call that they don't, a la Clueless/Emma. Calling what they did as being "cruel" seems a bit much. They know that JJ's weakness is being the forgotten middle brother and they used that here. Was it a bit bitchy? Sure. Did it make a point? Also sure.

 

Cruel would have been one of them throwing back JJ's old cutting habit back into his face, or what Johnny Weir said to JJ about the Twin Towers. It was under the belt but not that far below.

Edited September 24, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

On 9/22/2017 at 4:09 PM, centexhairysub said:

 

 

I completely disagree with the idea that JJ should not have stopped Maddy from tearing around the kitchen screaming; did JJ do it for the right reason, maybe not; but that does not change the fact that she was acting badly and if you don't start getting a child under control at that age, you never will when they are a teenager; been there and done that.  Sorry, but Will got played by Maddy badly with that situation.

 

 

 

This is the only thing in your post that I have to vehemently disagree with you about.  JJ has ample grounds to whine and bitch about his family neglecting him, etc., etc., but the deal with Maddy was pretty clear cut.  Keep in mind that we're seeing this through JJ's eyes, so we don't know if the kids were really being that obnoxious, but even assuming that they were that bad, he had no grounds to interfere, and he had absolutely no right to grab her.  That type of physical action is always out of line for someone who isn't the child's parent.  He's her half-brother, and even though he's shown no interest in Maddy (or Riley), that status gives him at most the right to talk to them sternly.  I would have expected him to say to them, "hey, calm down!" or probably a more snarky "settle down, this isn't a playground."  If that didn't work, he needed to talk to Tiffany.  Quite frankly, the only person who has, IMHO, the right to voice true and firm disapproval (besides Tiffany) is JP (or maybe Isidore).  It's his kitchen, and he likes having his great-grandchildren (as he would consider them) around.  I suspect that if he would have been there, he would have treated them indulgently, taking into account that it was a busy morning, one that would have been a bit chaotic with preparations to leave.  If it were dinner in the dining room and not breakfast in the kitchen, he would have expected an entirely different type of behavior. 

 

[Mark Arbour]

18 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

 

... a couple of times I came close to no longer being on Mark's team because of said disagreements.

 

I'm so glad you didn't, but just so you know, if the day comes that you decide to do that, I promised Sharon that JJ gets hit by a bus. 

[Drew Espinosa]

18 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Was it a bit bitchy? Sure.

JJ's already bitchy, adding more bitchiness from Will and Darius isn't gonna help anything.  

[methodwriter85]

5 hours ago, Mark Arbour said:

 

I'm so glad you didn't, but just so you know, if the day comes that you decide to do that, I promised Sharon that JJ gets hit by a bus. 

 

Eh. I like to think I've mellowed out with age.

 

Although that comment does remind me of Mean Girls. Maybe JJ can try to become Queen Bee at his new high school, and enrages the current one, leading to an all-out Bitch War?

 

Alright, I am kidding about that one. The school he's going to doesn't sound like it would foster that kind of "mean girl" environment.

 

Anyway, I don't know. I do get your point about JJ being out of line. However, Darius really just sounds like he couldn't give a shit about JJ at this point and he's only doing this out of family obligation, rather than having any kind of actual concern about JJ. I think that's the part that might be why people have had a negative reaction to this plot. Ostensibly, it's a tough love approach to JJ. But I can't think of any recent character interaction that JJ has had with Darius that would show that Darius even gives a shit about him, as opposed to Will and JJ. Say what you will about Will, but he and JJ have had some lovely brotherly moments together. Darius on the other hand, just kind of seems like he became really cold after 9/11 and his break-up with Ella. Which is understandable, but I can see why JJ doesn't feel like taking any kind of brotherly advice from Darius. Darius is doing the "tough" part, but he's not really doing the "love" part.

 

Although come to think of it, JJ's never had that kind of big brother worship for Darius. I think the only one he's ever had that for is Matt.

 

So yeah, I can see where it just rings as kind of false and hollow for Darius to try and pull some tough love "let's teach my brother a lesson he needs" moment, because he really just hasn't been involved enough in JJ's life to really warrant having that much say in it. Will has, and Stefan has, but not Darius.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by methodwriter85