Crave By Litlover

[Former Member]

It’s going to take more than just a few months for Alek to get rid of the baggage he’s carrying. The only way Alek’s ‘girlfriend’ could ever be excused is if they are only getting married so she can get a green card and she knows the relationship is merely financial. And I hope I haven’t just guessed at Alek’s plan because I still like Nathan a whole lot more than Alek.

[Bucket1]

Well my dear LL, haven't you created a lot of discussion 

 

People have raised some very interesting points worthy of consideration even Gary   (I am presuming there was a "don't" missing from Gary's comment and he does not want Liam to have regrets) [Edit: I notice you have changed it]

 

Liam obviously had/has strong feelings for Alek, he broke up and took him back a number of times but I take Kitt's question to heart. Did Alek just cause too much hurt to be let back in? And caring, protective words at the bar notwithstanding Alek needs to demonstrate he is serious about being worthy of Liam's love even if Liam doesn't take him back. That was Alek's promise.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Bucket1

[Bucket1]

Forgot to say that it was a big promise especially given their history 

[hohochan657]

As I have said before, Alek, get off your sorry ass and do something to win Liam back !

 

I'm quite partial to tall, muscular, second generation immigrant, ethnic, Russian man ...

[Timothy M.]

The only way Alek’s ‘girlfriend’ could ever be excused is if they are only getting married so she can get a green card and she knows the relationship is merely financial. 

 

Has there been any indication Alek's girlfriend is a foreigner? I thought she was Canadian, but of course that makes it less likely she knows about being his beard. Unless she is a good friend helping Alek hide the truth from his family, because his dad became suspicious.

 

I agree about it being a lot to ask Liam to forgive and take Alek back once more time, but on the other hand he has done it before, when he knew Alek wasn't ready to come out of the closet. The question is whether Liam will be happier with Alek than without him, and right now he still loves him and misses him.

 

It's not as if Alek was disliked by anyone for anything else, the only objection Liam's friends have it the fact he hurt Liam by refusing to acknowledge their relationship. Once Alek comes out, this problem will be solved, as I refuse to believe his parents could force him to hide again.

[Headstall]

Does no one put some of the onus on Liam... he's a grown man who knew what he was getting in to... He let Alek stay in that closet and still have their relationship... he made that decision... and yes, Alek took advantage of that, but did he really think of it that way... he doesn't seem the kind of man who would ask Liam to be unhappy... my read is he thought what they had was enough...idiotic, yes, but sometimes we all miss what's right in front of us... and if someone says they don't, I call bull...

Edited March 4, 2017 by Headstall

[Reader1810]

Does no one put some of the blame on Liam... he's a grown man who knew what he was getting in to... He let Alek stay in that closet and still have their relationship... he made that decision... and yes, Alek took advantage of that, but did he really think of it that way... he doesn't seem the kind of man who would ask Liam to be unhappy... my read is he thought what they had was enough...idiotic, yes, but sometimes we all miss what's right in front of us... and if someone says they don't, I call bull...

 

I was thinking the same thing recently. But, should he be faulted for sticking it out with Alek for as long as he did? He either felt that the love he had for Alek was important enough to 'take what he could get', or he may have hoped Alek would come around and open the closet door. In the end, his head won out over his heart because he realized the way they were living wasn't living at all. 

 

Alek shoulders most most of the blame, though because he expected his boyfriend to keep their relationship a secret- as in, they had to be discreet around town lest they be spotted and found out by his father. 

[Headstall]

I was thinking the same thing recently. But, should he be faulted for sticking it out with Alek for as long as he did? He either felt that the love he had for Alek was important enough to 'take what he could get', or he may have hoped Alek would come around and open the closet door. In the end, his head won out over his heart because he realized the way they were living wasn't living at all. 

 

Alek shoulders most most of the blame, though because he expected his boyfriend to keep their relationship a secret- as in, they had to be discreet around town lest they be spotted and found out by his father. 

We all make our own decisions, some good and some bad... I don't put blame on anyone... they are two grown men who entered a closeted relationship... I don't see it as a matter of who's more to blame... the love is there, but Liam couldn't live with the situation anymore... I would never blame him for that... Alex is an idiot, but he's like a multitude of other gay men working their way through their own personal landmines... not going to blame him either....

[Former Member]

We all make our own decisions, some good and some bad... I don't put blame on anyone... they are two grown men who entered a closeted relationship... I don't see it as a matter of who's more to blame... the love is there, but Liam couldn't live with the situation anymore... I would never blame him for that... Alex is an idiot, but he's like a multitude of other gay men working their way through their own personal landmines... not going to blame him either....

You were just faster to type this in. I was just trying to write the same. LOL I think, if someone wants, there is almost always a way to forgive things, which happen out of fear or the inability to find the right way at first. It depends how strong both want it. Life is not a one-way street. And the head is round, so that thought can turn and take another direction.

[Timothy M.]

Does no one put some of the onus on Liam... he's a grown man who knew what he was getting in to... He let Alek stay in that closet and still have their relationship... he made that decision... and yes, Alek took advantage of that, but did he really think of it that way... he doesn't seem the kind of man who would ask Liam to be unhappy... my read is he thought what they had was enough...idiotic, yes, but sometimes we all miss what's right in front of us... and if someone says they don't, I call bull...

 

Yes, Liam accepted the closeted part in the beginning, even though he was worried right from the start. And so was Corey.

 

I think Liam hoped if they really came to love and care for each other, Alek would come out gradually. I think what hurt Liam most was he felt rejected and unworthy when it became clear the love they shared wasn't enough for Alek to take that crucial step. I can understand how hard it is for Alek, but if he had set a date and made a promise to come out, once his business was secure, then I think Liam would have stuck it out, and his friends would have been supportive. But Liam's self-worth was being eroded by being a dirty secret for so long, and he's actually still hurting from that. This is what I'm finding hard to forgive.

 

I actually don't think Liam blames Alek - and since he still loves him, their relationship must have been great in other ways. We don't know what happened when they went into the circle of breaking up and getting back together, but I imagine Liam telling Alek they were over unless he could commit to coming out. For me that was when Alek should have made his choice - and apparently he did, viz the girlfriend. Wrong choice - and there is no way Liam can be blamed for that. Now Alek may be trying to make a different choice, and I wish him luck - and even the reward of Liam's love, provided it makes them both happy.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Timothy M.

[Former Member]

Has there been any indication Alek's girlfriend is a foreigner? I thought she was Canadian, but of course that makes it less likely she knows about being his beard. Unless she is a good friend helping Alek hide the truth from his family, because his dad became suspicious.

 

 

I don’t recall any indication of the nationality of Alek’s girlfriend. I was positing the single excuse that I, with my limited imagination as a non-writer, would find acceptable. There are many stories of Russians who pay large sums to Americans (and I presume, Canadians) to marry them so they can get a green card (and presumably the Canadian equivalent).

 

If the sum is large enough, it might make it possible for Alek to tell his father he no longer needs his assistance and can stand on his own two feet. And can Come Out to his family without fear of financial retribution.

[Timothy M.]

I don’t recall any indication of the nationality of Alek’s girlfriend. I was positing the single excuse that I, with my limited imagination as a non-writer, would find acceptable. There are many stories of Russians who pay large sums to Americans (and I presume, Canadians) to marry them so they can get a green card (and presumably the Canadian equivalent).

 

If the sum is large enough, it might make it possible for Alek to tell his father he no longer needs his assistance and can stand on his own two feet. And can Come Out to his family without fear of financial retribution.

 

Hmm, that sounds like a good plan, except wouldn't he have to marry her in order for her to arrive? But she's clearly here already and being called girlfriend, not wife. Liam would have been even more devastated by Alek marrying, if he didn't know the truth.

[Former Member]

Hmm, that sounds like a good plan, except wouldn't he have to marry her in order for her to arrive? But she's clearly here already and being called girlfriend, not wife. Liam would have been even more devastated by Alek marrying, if he didn't know the truth.

 

A fiancée can enter the US with a special visa.

 

Marriage would confer legal rights including immigration and, in the US, a green card (which allows you to legally be employed). Presumably a similar procedure is possible.

 

What you call a woman who you have no emotional connection with and are attempting to get financial compensation for a (not legal) legal procedure is not clear. You could imitate Trump and call her your fake-wife or so-called-wife, or you might call her a girlfriend – especially if no ceremony has taken place yet.

 

In the US, Immigration examines marriages that appear to be fake and the two spouses are questioned separately about intimate details in an attempt to prove the two are not intimate. The Wedding Banquet showed one example of a fake marriage, I believe The Green Card showed detail on the examination process.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Former Member

[Timothy M.]

 I believe The Green Card showed detail on the examination process.

 

I liked the Green Card, in particular because there wasn't an immediate happy ending. On the other hand, the way they tripped him up was not so believable.

 

 

Who the hell can remember what scent your SO wears? Not me...

 

 

But OK, it was his reaction to forgetting this detail, which gave him away. 

 

Oh, and I think this was where I first heard the term 'legal alien' - which was once translated in the Danish subtitles as rumvæsen meaning extraterrestial. :rofl:

Edited March 4, 2017 by Timothy M.

[Former Member]

My grandparents were all legal aliens for many years because they were legally denied the opportunity to apply for naturalization, a right afforded to almost certainly all European immigrants at the time. It wasn’t until after WWII that the laws were changed.

 

My parents were US citizens due to the fact they were both born in California.

[Former Member]

I liked the Green Card, in particular because there wasn't an immediate happy ending. On the other hand, the way they tripped him up was not so believable.

 

 

Who the hell can remember what scent your SO wears? Not me...

 

 

But OK, it was his reaction to forgetting this detail, which gave him away. 

 

Oh, and I think this was where I first heard the term 'legal alien' - which was once translated in the Danish subtitles as rumvæsen meaning extraterrestial. :rofl:

If that interests you, you might want to research how Chinese immigrants were treated on Angel Island in San Francisco Bay pre-WWII. There were laws prohibiting Chinese immigration for many decades. The Chinese were scapegoated after they helped build the Central Pacific railroad through the Sierra Nevadas from Sacramento to meet the Union Pacific in Utah.

 

After the 1906 San Francisco Earthquake, many records were lost and clever and very desperate immigrants took advantage of that lack of documentation. Paper sons and other false relatives were created. The potential immigrants memorized tons of details about their supposed relative’s home in China. Immigration Agents would ask questions about the number of windows in a bedroom or the number of steps in a particular staircase. They might ask what color a neighbor’s door is or who ran a store down the street. If they decided you were lying, you were deported back to China. Potential immigrants might spend months or even a year in a detention center on an island in the middle of the Bay, close enough to see The City, but too far to swim.

[Drew Espinosa]

Time to reread Crave!

[Timothy M.]

Time to reread Crave!

 

Yeah, surely there are a few chapters I haven't ranted about yet.

 

Tillykke on being this month's CSR, LL.  

Edited March 6, 2017 by Timothy M.

[LitLover]

Has there been any indication Alek's girlfriend is a foreigner? I thought she was Canadian, but of course that makes it less likely she knows about being his beard. Unless she is a good friend helping Alek hide the truth from his family, because his dad became suspicious.

 

I haven't said a lot about the girlfriend, but her name is Natalia and she is Russian.  More details about her will be revealed.  I promise

Time to reread Crave!

 

Yeah, surely there are a few chapters I haven't ranted about yet.

 

Tillykke on being this month's CSR, LL.  

 

Thank you!  I was absolutely floored when I saw the post when I signed in today.  It came as a complete, but pleasant, surprise.  

[Drew Espinosa]

I haven't said a lot about the girlfriend, but her name is Natalia and she is Russian.  More details about her will be revealed.  I promise

That doesn't surprise me. I mean, I know that first generation immigrants tend to stick together- they socialize with each other, do business, and so on. Which isn't surprising; if you are emigrating to a foreign land which could have different attitudes and customs to your own, then you would want to stay close to things that are familiar- namely, people from the same nationality. As for the Petrovs, it is clear that they are no different, I mean from Unforgivable, Alek was able to set up his shop with a Russian man that his father knew. So, when it comes to girlfriend material, it wouldn't be surprising that Alek would choose a Russian, just to please his family.

 

 

Thank you!  I was absolutely floored when I saw the post when I signed in today.  It came as a complete, but pleasant, surprise.  

You're welcome Lit. I think we all did a happy dance when we saw it, I know I did.

[Former Member]

spikey doesn’t think Closet-Boy sounds like a super-villain name.

 

How about Dr Closet? Closet-Master? Professor Closet? в гардероб? (Russian for The Closet)

[Headstall]

I returned Lit's chapter, so.... hehe    

[Reader1810]

spikey doesn’t think Closet-Boy sounds like a super-villain name.

 

How about Dr Closet? Closet-Master? Professor Closet? в гардероб? (Russian for The Closet)

I like them all, but the last one gets my vote, because it seems more sinister and mysterious. 

I returned Lit's chapter, so.... hehe  

First a funky post in CoTT, now this? Should we be calling someone to check on you....????

[Drew Espinosa]

 

 

spikey doesn’t think Closet-Boy sounds like a super-villain name.

 

How about Dr Closet? Closet-Master? Professor Closet? в гардероб? (Russian for The Closet)

FYI to anyone trying to pronounce the last one: (ve gard-ye-robe) ...at least, I think that's about right.

 

I returned Lit's chapter, so.... hehe  

Time to employ my bribery skills...

 

I'll give you a cookie if you expand on that hehe.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Drew Espinosa

[Former Member]

I pronounce it ‘Ruh shen for thuh klah zet.”  ;-)

Edited March 9, 2017 by Former Member