Kitt

I think you are all getting hung up on the "gay" aspect. After working in a school system for 15 years I have seen many different sorts of abusive relationships. The sort of control Nathan was exerting over Clem is not so much a function of how he perceives gay men, but more an issue of being IN CONTROL. It happens in m/f relationships as often as in gay ones. Certainly Nathan's warped sense of bottoms being pansy's and not wanting to "be a pansy" contributed to the situation, but the roots go much deeper. Do I think Nathan is also a victim? Yes - to an extent. But it is something only he can fix, and before that can happen he has to WANT to fix it. An alcoholic who does not want to stop drinking doesn't - a junkie who does not want to get clean never does. So too a control freak does not let go of control unless he WANTS to change. That is not to say change cannot happen - it can and does. I just don't think Nathan is ready for it yet. Might this send Nathan into a downward spiral? Sure can! But sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can climb out.

Rob really has to learn to respect a closed door!

Or at the very least pursue the change of guardianship thing, officially making Frank and Isadore his legal guardians.

Tis a big difference between big and strong and being a big jerk

I never took that passage to mean Clem was dismissive of the big strong ones - just the ones who wanted things their way or the highway, and I can't blame him there! Had any man treated me the way Nathan treated him I would be writing to you from a correctional institution. Oh, and don't forget! I am very far ahead of you lot! I thought that passage came much later in the story than it obviously did!

Ten years I could have dealt with Mark! This one lasted much much shorter - it died right after the one year warranty did.

LOL Now you know how I feel when I am editing a story! Add to that the frustration of keeping my mouth shut and not giving away any spoilers!

Hense the reason I bullied Sasha into at least changing the spelling of the name. Gary? Where did you get that Clem has been passing over other more masculine prospects since the breakup with Nathan? Have you read chapters I have not? I saw a man end a relationship that had been less than equal from the beginning and was now deteriorating to unacceptable violence, then down the road having a chance encounter with someone who happened to be the total opposite. I do not recall any romantic prospects being turned down between. And just when did this occur? I do not recall this either. These guys are young - going home with someone who turns out to be not right for you happens. It's called dating. You have to kiss a lotta frogs before you find the prince(ss).

BST ( that's what Sasha calls my husband) and I are much the same. It does not work well when children are little however! LOL Have you been listening to conversations between myself and wings again Rustle? I've done this as well, and gone as far as having my sister in law try on a sweater "for Aunt XXX" because they wear the same size. I got away with it twice about 5 years apart before the gal caught on!

LOL you gave us way too much information! You need to make it harder than that! The Man From Earth

i don't think anyone is irredeemable. I think Nate has some really deep seated issues about not looking gay. And we have not seen anyone else react badly to his homophobic BS because we have not seen him spout any around others. The only scene we have seen him in around anyone else was in the diner.

Not quite a classic yet but... Kelly Clarkson also does a wonderful version.

I think the friendship between Clem and Nate would have eventually died even if they had not become involved sexually. Nate would have continued the homophobic crap because I think he has it in his head that he cannot "look" gay.

For me it is all about making the people around me happy. Finding just the right gift to make someone squee when they open it is just the start. It then has to be wrapped just so, in order to amaze, frustrate or confuse the recipient and amuse the rest of the revelers present. I once gave my nephew and his wife ( at the time they were just starting to date and on a very limited budget) a gift certificate to an upscale restaurant. Rather than a small box or envelope, the certificate was rolled up and put into a napkin ring, then the ring and plastic serving ware was hot glued onto a fancy paper plate to create a table setting. That was put into a shirt box and wrapped. A lot of work? Yeah - but the look of puzzlement before he unrolled the "napkin" and the merriment in the room was worth it! As to how I unwrap something - it sort of depends on who is the giver, and where in the process we are. In my family we unwrap in turns - one package each all the way around the room for as many turns as it takes so that no two are unwrapping at the same time. That way we don't miss the look on someones face when they have opened just the right thing ( or the look of puzzlement while he is trying to figure it out!). Sometimes I tear in like the Tasmanian Devil, other times you would not even need to press the paper to use it again.

How can you fall asleep with that many decibels shaking the floor?

about the only one he didn't use was

He did dance - look at the second little yellow guy!

The "equality of the sexes" is such a bunch of BS! Men and women are wired and hinged differently and while people should be treated the same regardless of sex, and paid the same for the same work, people really do have to accept that a 5'5 110 pound female will never be able to compete physically with a 6'5 250 guy!

Tim has the right idea there. My father intentionally kept refilling my wine glass when I was not looking so I never seemed to finish the "just one" he gave me. His intention was for me to recognize when I became tipsy, and when pleasantly buzzed passed into the realms of had too much. Problem was I managed to walk up the floating dock to the car with no problem and the designated driver for the night (mom) had to fish him out of the water!

I never quite understood the deafening volume. Whats the matter with keeping it down to this side of the pain point? But then - when the baseline on the stereo of the car behind me at the traffic light is hurting my ears I wonder that the driver can hear anything when he gets out of the car!

Those Sunday dinners usually are DDK!

When Wings was in 5th grade ( eldest of the grammar school set around here) a bully was picking on one of the special needs students. Wings told him to bugger off and when he shoved her she lost it and decked him. While I did the "Yes sir it will not happen again" routine while handling the suspension paperwork, I also took my daughter out for lunch and a mother/daughter fun day on the day she was suspended. I was proud of the way she handled the bully, and while I understand that the school had to suspend her for a day for a first offense fighting,( the bully got a week for the combined offenses of putting his hands on my girl and bullying the SN student) I was NOT going to add to the punishment! And Carlos is right - "Just say NO" is a great slogan, but seldom works in the teen world. My brother and sister-in-law was trying that route when her son was 15. I caught holy hell when I found out the kids were, shall I say...enjoying private company...and took him out to buy his first box of condoms. I talked to him frankly about how condoms were even more important to prevent STD's than to prevent pregnancy, and said while waiting till you were sure someone really cares was best, I was not naive enough to think that the boy would think with the head on his shoulders when the time came! I handled things the same way with my own daughter. LOL you should have seen the look on her daddy's face when I put condoms in her purse on Prom Night!

Job for you I can do - for him? I know nothing of code!

That is so not a fair question to ask. I can honestly say I have never read a story here I did not enjoy! I have read hundreds, edited dozens, and there is absolutely no way I could choose one as the favorite. I have an entire list of favorites!

He is welcome back here any time, but we would have to drive further north for any real snow. After 3 days of the stuff falling from the sky we barely cover the grass here, but I have family we can invade up in New Hampshire!