Religion for Gays

[MikeL]

Recently, in the GA chatroom, a discussion arose about religion. That's unusual. Many gays have no religious affiliation and do not want to discuss it. Many don't want to talk about religion or politics; if there were a contest to see which topic is discussed less, religion would win hands down.

 

It's understandable that gays who have been embarrassed or angered by something they heard - or expect to hear - from the pulpit or in a Bible class, are turned off by organized religion. Being told you are going to hell isn't uplifting.

 

Many gays, however, do not consider themselves atheists. They believe in God, not in religion. They may long for the association with a church that they had during their childhood, but they don't feel comfortable venturing into a place of worship on Sunday morning.

 

During the chat, we came across a website that provides information on gay friendly congregations. If you are so inclined, take a look at gaychurch.org. Among other things, it provides a list of accepting congregations by city grouped by state in the US and in many countries around the world. I was surprised to find how many such places there were in my home town. The churches include not only the Metropolitan Christian churches and Unitarian churches that many are familiar with, but also mainstream Protestant churches, Quaker, nondenominational, and even Baptist and Catholic congregations.

 

There's another option. If you can't find a suitable church home, consider joining or starting a home church. In the early years, Christians met in members' homes rather than in big auditoriums. The idea of home churches has become popular in recent years with many organized congregations meeting in small groups at members' homes at times other than the Sunday morning service.

 

You need not be excluded from a religious life if you desire one.

 

I wish you peace and love.

 

[thatboyChase]

My religion?

 

Me.

 

But I'm not gay.

[Nephylim]

First, there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. My definition of religion is the method by which spirituality is expressed and, as such I have my doubts about whether many branches of so called organised religion are, in fact religions or religious at all.

 

That being said there is absolutely no reason why someone who is gay cannot also be religious. If you start to carefully studdy the bible and the way in which people interperate it then it is quite clear that there is no reason whatever why the Christianity and homosexuality have to be mutually exclusive. The bible is not an instruction manual, it is a guide.... after all we don't stone adulterouses and.... the very same book and arguments were used to justify the burning of witches at one point (thou shalt not suffer a witch to live) and there are few who admit to ascribing to that philosophy any more.

 

As Chase has succinctly put it before me... my religion is ME in that I am the means by which my spirituality is expressed. I do not need a church, a priest or a label to be the means by which I connect with my own personal interpretation of God, Life, Spirituality, whateever... I am perfectly capable of connecting to the modem myself.

[Simon]

Dont forget us Jew's and Muslims.

Christianity is'nt the biggest religion, its the most popular in the US..but if im right in saying its Islam that wins overall.

 

I dont think getting closer to god means you have to lie to yourself and pray for forgiveness when you only do whats natural.

I dont think you need a place to pray, aslong as you do it where your comfortable and believe what you want to believe then theres nothing wrong with doing it at home, without the rules of a religion to hold you down.

 

But then again im aetheists so i may be wrong.

[Simon]

Dont forget us Jew's and Muslims.

Christianity is'nt the biggest religion, its the most popular in the US..but if im right in saying its Islam that wins overall.

 

I dont think getting closer to god means you have to lie to yourself and pray for forgiveness when you only do whats natural.

I dont think you need a place to pray, aslong as you do it where your comfortable and believe what you want to believe then theres nothing wrong with doing it at home, without the rules of a religion to hold you down.

 

But then again im aetheists so i may be wrong.

 

EDIT: got it wrong, christianity does win. I didnt acount for all its little sub catagories. My bad.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Simon

[Rilbur]

Just for hoots I looked up my hometown.

 

Four. There are four churches here who are gay friendly.

 

That's about five more than I expected to find, given than the area is deeply conservative. Not "deeply conservative for California', but really conservative. As in turn it into a state and it'd be redder than the blood in my veins!

[JamesSavik]

You know growing up in the babble belt I'm sick to death of religion, religious nuts and their bullshit.

 

The mere though of it just makes me angry.

 

There are no gay-friendly churches near me and I wouldn't be interested if they were.

 

I prefer REASON over RELIGIOUS MYTHS, LEGENDS and Hocus-Pocus.

[Mark Arbour]

You know growing up in the babble belt I'm sick to death of religion, religious nuts and their bullshit.

 

The mere though of it just makes me angry.

 

There are no gay-friendly churches near me and I wouldn't be interested if they were.

 

I prefer REASON over RELIGIOUS MYTHS, LEGENDS and Hocus-Pocus.

 

I'm right there with you James.

[Genetic_Drift]

I was raised catholic, but I got a healthy dose of "don't give a hoot" about religion in general from my father, who wasn't about to waste a good sunday in church since he worked 2 jobs and had precious little free time.

 

In my late teens when I realized I was never going to be the good christian my church wanted me to be (I didn't hate and look down on all the right people) I stopped going. I still had questions, and missed feeling spiritual. By sheer coincidence one evening (some long time later), I was with a friend, stopped at a convenience store, when he came back out and started telling me about the people he'd been talking to inside. They were Asatru (norse pagans), and I was stunned. In my limited experience I never realized that there were still polytheistic people in the world, much less in texas.

 

My world changed that night, even though I never spoke to, or even saw those Asatru folk. I owe them a debt, even though they don't know it. I didn't become Asatru, but I embraced my welsh blood and started reading what I could of the ancient religion of that land (there was precious little, sadly). So I'm a modern day pagan, flavoured with the welsh tales. It helps satisfy my need to be spiritual, but sadly it seems like too many of the pagans that I tried joining together with were either young people rebelling and trying to be "edge-y", 20 somethings that found it a good way to (*ahem*) "meet" younger people still rebelling, or people that were generally going through the motions. Not everyone was that way, of course, and I met some who were genuine leaders and inspirations. But too many of them were not authentic, and so it's been a long time since I've tried to connect with fellow pagans in my aea.

 

Chase

[Tiger]

Growing up in the Midwest and living in the South, one is not likely to embrace religion if they're gay. There may be gay-friendly churches, but many of us grew up in more traditional church settings. It just so happens that I did, and the eventual effect was that I am more or less an atheist. If others want to embrace religion, I have no problem with it. As for me, I prefer science as an explanation of the world.

[Conner]

What exactly does gay friendly mean? I'm talking specifically in regard to this gaychurch banner?

 

Is it something like, "Hate the sin, not the sinner!"? Well that's just crap.

 

Maybe it means, "Please come in and join us. Your eternal soul is in God's hands, not ours. We won't judge you. In fact, we prefer not to talk about it at all. Would you like to make an offering? How much you ask? Well, 10% of everything you earn is a good guideline."

 

Bur seriously, your Frogginess, what does gay friendly mean in this context?

[Nephylim]

I was raised catholic, but I got a healthy dose of "don't give a hoot" about religion in general from my father, who wasn't about to waste a good sunday in church since he worked 2 jobs and had precious little free time.

 

In my late teens when I realized I was never going to be the good christian my church wanted me to be (I didn't hate and look down on all the right people) I stopped going. I still had questions, and missed feeling spiritual. By sheer coincidence one evening (some long time later), I was with a friend, stopped at a convenience store, when he came back out and started telling me about the people he'd been talking to inside. They were Asatru (norse pagans), and I was stunned. In my limited experience I never realized that there were still polytheistic people in the world, much less in texas.

 

My world changed that night, even though I never spoke to, or even saw those Asatru folk. I owe them a debt, even though they don't know it. I didn't become Asatru, but I embraced my welsh blood and started reading what I could of the ancient religion of that land (there was precious little, sadly). So I'm a modern day pagan, flavoured with the welsh tales. It helps satisfy my need to be spiritual, but sadly it seems like too many of the pagans that I tried joining together with were either young people rebelling and trying to be "edge-y", 20 somethings that found it a good way to (*ahem*) "meet" younger people still rebelling, or people that were generally going through the motions. Not everyone was that way, of course, and I met some who were genuine leaders and inspirations. But too many of them were not authentic, and so it's been a long time since I've tried to connect with fellow pagans in my aea.

 

Chase

 

Yay... a fellow Celt. I know what you mean about the pretentious twits out there, I have met a fair few of them which is why I pretty much walk my own path these days. If you are interested in modern day Celtic Paganism there is some good stuff out there on Celtic Wicca and, of course Druidry is an option. I found that some of the Druid orders, especially the more esoteric ones are... heavier than the fluffy bunny paganism I come across in other areas and not so dogmatic as Wicca

[Mark Arbour]

What exactly does gay friendly mean? I'm talking specifically in regard to this gaychurch banner?

 

Is it something like, "Hate the sin, not the sinner!"? Well that's just crap.

 

Maybe it means, "Please come in and join us. Your eternal soul is in God's hands, not ours. We won't judge you. In fact, we prefer not to talk about it at all. Would you like to make an offering? How much you ask? Well, 10% of everything you earn is a good guideline."

 

Bur seriously, your Frogginess, what does gay friendly mean in this context?

 

Cynically hilarious!

[Arpeggio]

I was raised as a catholic all my life, but I'm a eclectic wiccan, very nontraditional (it does seem dogmatic at times, I agree).

 

I tried to be an atheist, believing only reason and such, but it really just makes the days very empty. To each their own, I guess.

[Aeroplane]

I'm right there with you James.

And I .

[Trebs]

What exactly does gay friendly mean? I'm talking specifically in regard to this gaychurch banner?

 

Is it something like, "Hate the sin, not the sinner!"? Well that's just crap.

 

Maybe it means, "Please come in and join us. Your eternal soul is in God's hands, not ours. We won't judge you. In fact, we prefer not to talk about it at all. Would you like to make an offering? How much you ask? Well, 10% of everything you earn is a good guideline."

 

Bur seriously, your Frogginess, what does gay friendly mean in this context?

 

From their website, the relevant description:

All churches listed represent themselves in some form or fashion as welcoming Christian church (i.e. gay friendly). "Welcoming" means that the church does not view homosexuality in and of itself as a sin and therefore they would welcome and treat a homosexual person no differently than any other person who walked through their church doors seeking Christ.

 

"Welcoming" does not necessarily mean that the church is allowed to ordain gay ministers, perform holy unions etc... These issues are usually set at the denominational level and are, many times, outside of the auspices of the individual church.

 

A word of caution however. While we work hard to validate that these churches are indeed welcoming we cannot be 100% sure that they are. In some cases, gaychurch.org is only passing along material from various church organizations etc. that stipulates that these churches are welcoming (public domain information).

 

Personally, I'm agnostic. Technically, I'm Catholic as my Irish Grandmother made sure each of my father's three children were baptised though none of us were ever confirmed. My parents basically let us choose our own religious direction - we never had to go to Church (except about 4 times, when visiting my Grandmother) - but if we wanted to, we knew our parents would take us to any Church we choose. I did go a few times to my next door neighbor's Church and had many long religious discussions growing up, but before I even left high school, I firmly viewed myself as an agnostic. This was done after a lot of research, interest and investigation into a variety of religions and spiritual practices. Also - being gay had nothing to do with these views as that wasn't even something I accepted about myself for a few more years.

 

Now - other than the Catholic Church, I personally look well on many religions and their followers. Well - even individual Catholics, depending on the person, I may look well on - it's just the dogma of papal infallibility and the views of all recent Popes on homosexuality, condom use and abortion. [NOTE - I do NOT want this to tangent onto a discussion of abortion - I am merely statement my disagreement with the Catholic Church's view of the subject - if you want to discuss abortion, this is not the thread]

 

One church that is referred to positively in many gay stories I come across is the Episcopal/Anglican branch. Don Hanratty, Sequoia, Etienne, Mike Arram are to name just a few wonderful authors whose stories include characters worshiping and being welcome in various Episcopal/Anglican churches. I'm especially attuned to real life news about the Episcopal Church as a close friend from work - his mother is an Episcopal priest and he has held various lay positions in his local church. So when I find stories, such as the recent Bishop searches in the Los Angeles diocese (as well as one in Minnesota or Wisconsin - forget which) where the final list of candidates in both cases include lesbian and gay priests. Not to mention of course the already previous Bishop of New Hampshire - who hopefully will soon be joined by at least one or two others.

 

Reading references in some of the above mentioned stories, does make me see the sense of wonder, of community, of sharing that is obvious these authors and many others who attend churches feel. I can appreciate that even though I personally do not share their faith.

 

Mike - thanks for starting this topic and showcasing the gaychurch website - it looks like a great reference. As to the question regarding non-Christian faiths, I know the reform branch of the Jewish religion is typically gay-friendly (and some Conservative denominations are as well). I know there are gay muslims out there and would guess there are web resources available if searched for. Just as any other human institution, religions and churches are adjusting to changing demographics and viewpoints - and that's a healthy change all around.

[JamesSavik]

Links for Gay Christians

 

Whosoever.org

 

GayChristian.Net

 

GayChristians.org

 

These are links to organizations that I know are sincere, good and sane. There are other sites and orgs that are fronts for people that want to preach celibacy or conversion therapy.

 

I don't care for religion. Faith and spirituality I have no problem with because its NOT POLITICAL nor does it seek to label anybody an abomination. I have a special hatred for that particular word. If you've read Broken, you'll know why.

[old bob]

I tried to be an atheist, believing only reason and such, but it really just makes the days very empty. To each their own, I guess.

I'm a "cultural" Jew, married with a catholic woman, in the middle of a Calvinist town, describing myself as "Deist",going sometimes in churches just for the fine music (I like organ music and choirs).

Lacey's words, particulary those I write in black, are also mine.

BTW, just to say, even if some people will disagree, what I dont like, in christian religions of any kind and Islam, is the "Mission" spirit, the need to influence others to join their groups. At least, it is something I cannot reproach to the orthodox Jews !

Freedom to be what you want to be, freedom to choose your belief, even if you prefer not to choose one, is a natural right. Nobody has a right to try to persuade me to change my mind (Sorry if I'm too frank in this matter, but it had to be said ) .

[Mark Arbour]

I'm a "cultural" Jew, married with a catholic woman, in the middle of a Calvinist town, describing myself as "Deist",going sometimes in churches just for the fine music (I like organ music and choirs).

Lacey's words, particulary those I write in black, are also mine.

BTW, just to say, even if some people will disagree, what I dont like, in christian religions of any kind and Islam, is the "Mission" spirit, the need to influence others to join their groups. At least, it is something I cannot reproach to the orthodox Jews !

Freedom to be what you want to be, freedom to choose your belief, even if you prefer not to choose one, is a natural right. Nobody has a right to try to persuade me to change my mind (Sorry if I'm too frank in this matter, but it had to be said ) .

 

The concept of "converting" unbelievers is something I too find reprehensible. I think that in any religion, where it is asserted that their path is the only path to heaven, there is bound to be a militancy and violence spawned from such a doctrine.

[James_Freestone]

My small town has 3 churches that are gay friendly and open to the idea of gays going to heaven. I checked. I, for one, believe in god and love him unconditionally. It angers me how gays are constantly ridiculed for loving a god that may send them to hell. It's ...ugh. My mind is not even working anymore.

[Howie]

there's a thread about the difference between admitting that you're not straight and admitting that you're an atheist on richarddawkins.net/forum at the moment, in case anybody's interested.

 

here it is: clickety

[W_L]

Let's see, I'm a pretty odd religiously.

 

I have had more or less Catholic background; not "confirmed" and I have strong issues with the way the church is conducted under the traditional stagnant backdrop. I also have a background in Baptist teachings, they are very strong believers and I can understand how that might rub people the wrong way. I did not agree with Baptist principles of "salvation" through Christ; technically, I could not accept the thought that any merciful God would condemn anyone that may not choose to believe in a particular set of principles.

 

As a Chinese boy growing up, I was influenced by Daoist principles and Buddhism. Most people don't really believe in them as religions, but they do observe the holidays and traditional stories. I actually enjoy the Daoist histories a lot; Daoism is one of the world's first scientific association. The early founders of Daoist thought practice observational natural science: recording chemical reaction, Astronomy, Engineering, and offered other insights into the natural world. Later on, the group did betray many of its founding principles and incorporated polytheism with less emphasis on scientific exploration. However, I think the concepts were still remarkable along with their clarity of thought in terms of the nature of existence and the nature of God (Yes, it's complicated, but the Daoist do have a non-corporeal belief in a unified entity God). Later on, I learned about early Hinduism in history class, my favorite history teacher in middle school and I talked about everything about the nature of the singular God concept in different ancient and modern religions. I was hooked. I spent a lot of time in middle school, high school, and college discussing with my history teachers the finer points of civilizations and philosophy. I have not met a history teacher or professor that I cannot talk with about the nature of civilizations. Some of them were class conflict historians, structural historians, social historians, neo-classical historians, and others sub-disciplines of history.

 

You can say, my knowledge of religious thought is kind of connected with my love of history.

 

Today, I don't know what I can be considered as. I believe that there is a God, but I would consider him/her/it an internalized entity of our spirit, an incorporeal form of nature. I think the closest religion would be Quaker tradition for me, who also believe in an internalized God with less emphasis on the practices or traditions.

 

I am not a big fan of organized religion, who I view have diverted their search for spiritual meaning in order to pursue more worldly aims and political power. I don't agree with the use of traditions and practices that hinder a person's free will.

[BlueSoxSWJ]

Huh, the site lists three churches in my hometown, but conspicuously omits the church in the center that drives the Historical Society insane by flying a giant rainbow flag. [Not because the Historical Society is against gays, but because I live in Lexington, MA, and they try to keep the battle green and surrounding houses/buildings looking like they did in 1776.]

[W_L]

Huh, the site lists three churches in my hometown, but conspicuously omits the church in the center that drives the Historical Society insane by flying a giant rainbow flag. [Not because the Historical Society is against gays, but because I live in Lexington, MA, and they try to keep the battle green and surrounding houses/buildings looking like they did in 1776.]

 

Yeah, the MHC (Mass historic commission) behind Mass historic society is pretty odd bunch. I had work with them on a renovation project, interesting people, but I think a few are a bit uptight about preservationist ideals. My advice if I ever have to work with them again, make sure you give them a little space in negotiations and keep the history in mind. They're not bad people, just serious about the history.

 

I like Lexington, it's pretty neat area; though, I only explored by accident through Mass. Ave from Cambridge, when I was job hunting.

[Rigel]

As to the question regarding non-Christian faiths, I know the reform branch of the Jewish religion is typically gay-friendly (and some Conservative denominations are as well).

 

While its a truism that Reform and Reconstructionist branches of Judaism are most open to gays, followed by the Conservative movement, and the Orthodox are generally unwelcoming, here's an interesting article about an Orthodox rabbi who welcomes gays into his congregation:

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/13912/unorthodox-position/print/

 

Some terms in the article might be unfamiliar, though most are defined there, at least by context.

One small correction to the article: Ohev Sholom is in the Shepherd Park neighborhood of Washington, DC, (the northernmost part), and not in Dupont Circle.

Just goes to show that you can occasionally find gay-friendly congregations in the most unlikely denominations.

 

--Rigel