Would you think I'm dumb?

[D_of_Hazzard]

I have this friend who I had an argument with about how he thinks I'm uneducated or ignorant and don't know about a lotta things and how he doesn't think it's good. We're not talking about ignorance like a conservative mindset that's unwilling to accept ideas like anti-gays, but I mean things like not knowing classical references, pop culture references and stuff like that. Some things I really just don't have an interest in but I guess there are a lotta things everyone should know just because, but I don't know them, so idk if I'm just dumb or what because I should know more things since I did graduate high school but I did go to a pretty ghetto school and kinda skipped a lot, so I missed the day when we were taught Tom Sawyer or things like that. Other than those, people would always make fun of me when I miss references to everyday life.

 

So I'm wondering if I'm really just kinda dumb because it's not like I chose to never get things, I just never were introduce to them and I can't know what I don't know....so when people expect me to get a joke or know something and I don't, it makes me feel dumb. Celebrities always get made fun of when they don't know something that everyone knows, I use to laugh at them too but now I'm wondering people laugh at me behind my back and think of me as one of those people who wouldn't know how to find America on a map.

Edited April 27, 2011 by D_of_Hazzard

[Cia]

If your lack of knowledge bothers you than do something about it. If it doesn't then say screw off to everyone else. I love to learn. I am a trivia hound, I was raised to be one but I get that other people might not know the esoteric things I might. Then again I'm a political null, I have no interest in it.I can't even tell you definitively what party our President is. So I can get the fact that learning stuff you have no interest in is really not for you. I speak to the subjects I know and if I do not know something that someone mentions and I'm interested I look it up. If I'm not interested then I don't worry about it. You are the only one who can really decide what you are going to learn in life. I encourage you to read widely and learn because I feel we should never stop but unless you care it won't do you any good because you won't retain the information. If you get tired of feeling ignorant then do something about it.

 

 

[Nephylim]

No one, and I mean no one can ever know something they have never experienced or learned. If you have never read a book how can you possibly know what's in it. If you have never watched a film how can you possibly quote from it. Another thing is that we tend to only retain the things that interest us so I suppose that you are knowledgeable about the things that really interest you. Your hobbies and interests absorb you and so you learn what you can about them. I wonder if your friend knows the things that you do and I suggest that it is your friend who is the ignorant one for making you feel like this.

 

So what do you think everyone 'should' know?? Everyone knows different things. I can't quote from books or films but I can tell you the story of it. I know a lot about history because it interests me but I can't give you dates or often even the order that things happened. I read a lot because I love to read. My ex husband has gone through 48 years of life never having read a book at all. He's the regional manager of a prestigious factory chain and he knows a lot of things relating to art of management and the product the factory produces. He reads reports and all sorts of documents but he wouldn't have a clue about any of the classical characters or Star Wars or History

 

 

Each to his own. Don't be brought down by this so called friend. You are who you are - a unique and beautiful human being and he's mean

 

 

[Kavrik]

I personally have always been in a constant state of learning. I'm a critical reader which sometimes takes the enjoyment out of things. For example, I enjoy the books that you mentioned in your list but am unable to get through even two chapters of Twilight, glean enjoyment from Harry Potter, or read the homophobic rantings of Orson Scott Card simply because I know what's going on in the text (he uses the term Bugger as his alien and it really means all homosexuals). So maybe ignorance is bliss? I dunno. Just talking more on this whole OSC writing thing, I know people that are gleefully ignorant and would shake the man's hand if they met him? and think he's a great writer and deserving of his SF awards; if I ever saw him, my reaction would be to spit in his face, so yeah...

 

Anyways, maybe if fiction isn't your thing, you could read non-fiction if reading is what you truly like to do. I'm presently just finishing up Stephen Hawking's Grand Design, and I read Maya Angelou's Letter to my Daughter both great books.

 

I think that it's somewhat appalling to me that most of the readers today compare things to classical works they've never read (Twilight is like Romeo and Juliet, yet, they've not read Romeo and Juliet so how would they know?). One year I went to a movie called "Finding Neverland" with an acquaintance; upon leaving the movie, he proclaimed "That movie was amazing, it should win 'Best Picture'." I said, "How can you say that without seeing the other nominees? He replied, "I just can." It stuck in my mind as one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. I had seen all of the Best Picture nominees that year and chose "Million Dollar Baby" as the one to win and the Academy of Motion Pictures ended up agreeing with me. Anyway, my point is that too often, people will just grab onto one thing that pleases them and proclaim that as "the best" and "original" or laud it with praise and just dismiss everything else (true ignorance). I think that not knowing things puts you at a disadavantage in life in the sense that you are reliant upon what other people think to understand the world in which you live. A lot of the gays in my area, SLC, are ones that I'd have to say are pretty ignorant. They think only of sex, hooking up, and spend most of their time on Facebook or playing Farmville. But, they seem to be happy and they certainly get more sex than I do so who wins? I have no answer to this question at all.

 

But when something breaks, they don't know how to fix it. When a stranger expresses a hateful opinion because of religion, they don't know how to respond. When a group of people get together and start misquoting political issues, scientific findings, and other things to suit their own agenda and again (their own religion which is oftentimes disparaging to gays) they just swallow it up as truth. I on the other hand, set the person straight on their misquotes, provide my own empirical data if I have it, and tell them that before they go off spouting things they know nothing about to get followers, perhaps they should also be ready to supply me with empirical scientific data. Sometimes, I know, I'm difficult to talk to at parties but maybe it's because I'm searching for a kindred intellect and have never found it. Recently, one guy started going off about a dream he had where he was tending a field of grain and heard voices in the field. I said, "Oh, kind of like Holden Caulfield."

 

He looked at me with a blank stare. "Holden what?"

 

I remember rolling my eyes, "Holden Caulfield. The Catcher in the Rye?"

 

Then he replied, "Oh...that's a book, right?"

 

"mmm...yeah."

 

Being an atheist in a holy city doesn't make me popular, but as Richard Dawkins writes, truth has its own magnificence.

[D_of_Hazzard]

Thanks Cia and Nephylim, that's mostly what I think as well, but I guess I'm just kinda behind on "general knowledge" that hasn't much to do with interest.

So what do you think everyone 'should' know??

 

 

General things. Like you don't have to be an auto-mechanic to know what a Mercedes Benz is and you don't have to be into fashion to know that Gucci and Prada are high-status/expensive brands. If you ask someone what happened on "9-11" in the US, and they don't know, you'd think they're pretty much dumbshit.

[Y_B]

General things. Like you don't have to be an auto-mechanic to know what a Mercedes Benz is

 

Mercedes from Glee? She my gurlllll!

 

 

and you don't have to be into fashion to know that Gucci and Prada are high-status/expensive brands.

 

Oh yea, I think I did see a set of cattle brands one time that had "Gucci" and "Prada" shapes....they didn't seem more expensive than other brand irons though

 

If you ask someone what happened on "9-11" in the US, and they don't know, you'd think they're pretty much dumbshit.

 

 

Huh?.....is that a trick question?

 

 

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Your post shows you are not dumb just by how well it is written. There is a difference between lack of facts and being dumb. As you allude to, not being exposed to a certain set of facts does not make you stupid. Whatever else you learned in school, you certainly learned to read and write well. Everything else can be learned.

 

My granddad came from Italy around 1910. He had to leave school at 12 to work in his father's bakery to support the other 6 siblings [he was the oldest]. When he died, he left me all his books - he had hundreds, from the classics to things no one would recognize.[some well over a hundred years old.] Turns out he would go to yard sales and look for books he never read to teach himself. I don't usually keep books long, I read them and sell them or give them away for someone else to read, but I kept these just because of what they mean to him, and the fact he felt that was the greatest gift he could leave me.

 

Anyway my point is, you have the tools and the aptitude to learn whatever you want - you are not dumb, anymore than my granddad was with just a sixth grade education. But you should tell your friend that while you appreciate his attempts to bring cultural things to your attention, the fact that you can and have read and learned from them proves you are not dumb, merely had an education where these things were taught. And that you would appreciate him laying off the 'dumb' comments.

 

Andy

[hh5]

Sometimes, I know, I'm difficult to talk to at parties but maybe it's because I'm searching for a kindred intellect and have never found it. Recently, one guy started going off about a dream he had where he was tending a field of grain and heard voices in the field. I said, "Oh, kind of like Holden Caulfield."

 

He looked at me with a blank stare. "Holden what?"

 

I remember rolling my eyes, "Holden Caulfield. The Catcher in the Rye?"

 

Then he replied, "Oh...that's a book, right?"

 

"mmm...yeah."

 

Being an atheist in a holy city doesn't make me popular, but as Richard Dawkins writes, truth has its own magnificence.

 

* You could also refer him to "The field of dreams" ... and get him to believe "If you build it they will come"

* If he's a horror fan -> "Children of the corn" or the "signs"

 

Really its an opportunity and an opening to enlighten the guy to the passion of literature or even the classics of movies

 

Otherwise the impression I get is one would be an intellectual snob and the other who hates reading books

The dividing line is the boundaries set by both people ... rather than sharing, having a good time, and making a friend

 

Its apparent to see that its just a associational relationship ... the guy at a party ... the guy in another dept

 

Interesting quote ... there ... a city that preaches or the center of religious activity ... and the other that has a different belief system

Drums up a lot of interesting drama ....

 

I saw a scene from a movie called "Like Minds" ... its religion class and there is a student that has a different view or different understand from a historic pov

This is just an illustration of similar scenes in TV shows, movies, history and in literature.

Back to that scene ... It be an education to both if they learn from where each other is coming from rather drive things into a debate of who's right or wrong

But neither is willing to accept either POV on the subject ... of course for the movie its part of the story

Gosh there are teachers that can be stubborn about such subjects ... but there are some wonderful teachers that would work on promoting education

Like they would say ... please listen and learn my lesson of today and perhaps you can write me an essay on your POV and then contrast it to my lesson today.

This promotes education in this way really educates both the teacher and then student ... Its friendlier and its non confrontational

Its better than both the teacher and student - hold onto the question of who's better at the subject ... but there are times the student does not realize that the teacher is bounded to teach the subject as spell out in the text ... not all text books are perfect ... but then it may have been chosen for cost or other reasons. The time factor of the course is another factor as well as the ability of the other students to learn from a different source ... or perhaps its a student that missed a class ... deviating from the text would affect the absent student.

 

The bottom line we're just illustrating the issues of not getting along with each other - case by case

 

Perhaps one has encountered one form of cliche group ... again ... we can coin another saying many similar sayings

Sure "truth has its own magnificence."

Its apparent we're all human to be able to see it.

Then there be others who would defer to the perfect being who can see and hear the truth without a`question or argument from any one.

 

Sure during the time of 911 most people should know about it ... but then you can encounter those who don't or perhaps prefer to not remember it

ie: Ask a lot of ten yo ... see if they know about 911 ... go fifty years from now ... ask some other ten yo

 

Take the subject of music ... there are those that remember the classics very well but who wouldn't know Bieber or Lady Gaga

or how about the ones that know all of their local current popular music but wouldn't know Bach or Elvis or Hendrix

 

Its just sad that there's a lack of commonality between people ... and its rude that either faction would think badly of the other.

[Tipdin]

Being learned or educated does not necessarily make for a better person. To me, it's far more important that a person behaves honorably. Facts and figures can be found in a million places in a millisecond, just go to the Internet.

 

Granted, conventional knowledge can be a useful thing, but then meeting someone with a completely different take on life is rather like an adventure; so many things to discover or see from a new perspective. Talking to a mirror can get old VERY quickly. I enjoy meeting others who have fresh ideas and possible new vantage points from which to view a given subject.

 

For what it's worth, I've never read J.R.R. Tolkien, Twain, or any other supposed classic either. I never heard children's fables until I was in my twenties! And I didn't learn what a noun or adverb was until I was fifty years old! But I could talk for hours about Alexander Jackson Davis or H. H. Richardson, or A.W. Pugin - names about which the vast majority of the world hasn't a clue! Just because we don't know what someone else knows, doesn't mean we don't know anything at all.

 

Being learned or educated does not necessarily make for a better person.

[JamesSavik]

You should watch Star Wars and read Tolkien for no other reason than to experience something great.

 

So much of our lives are mired in mediocrity that we forget what it is like.

[Tipdin]

You should watch Star Wars and read Tolkien for no other reason than to experience something great.

 

So much of our lives are mired in mediocrity that we forget what it is like.

 

Hi James, to whom was your note directed?

 

If it was a suggestion for anyone, then I can tell you that I have seen all the Star Wars movies. In fact, in 1977(?) when the first Star Wars movie came out, I saw the thing nearly 30 times - it was COMPLETELY new technology at that time - I loved it!

 

As for Tolkien, I've tried - several times. But there were so many words that foreign to me that it was like trying to learn another language. I really enjoyed the movies based on his books though...

[Menorain]

You're not dumb, my dear friend. You just don't know shit about anything. Read a damn book and catch up with the rest of civilisation before it's too late.

[Greedya]

You may be dumb, mate.

 

I may be dumb too.

 

Socrates once said the best knowledge is in knowing that one knows nothing at all. The more you know, the more you know how much you don't know. Being dumb is a good thing, and a philosophical mind'd better start with a dumb mind - a mind that knows nothing and makes philosophical enquries without assuming anything. You may have to ask what 'dumb' means, and why (or why not) it is important.

 

Anyway, I guess your issue is not about whether or not you're dumb. It is that you take how other people think about you a little too seriously. You can't please the whole world, so it is okay that someone thinks negatively of you. If your friends think negatively of you because you don't know something, then they're not your friends.

 

Dumb or not - it is just a tag. A perception. A subjective evaluation. Maybe a necessity. In an open economy like this, some people know something more than other people because specialisation makes the market more efficient.

[JamesSavik]

As for Tolkien, I've tried - several times. But there were so many words that foreign to me that it was like trying to learn another language. I really enjoyed the movies based on his books though...

 

The movies are great too.

 

 

When I was in elementary school my grandmother read the Hobbit to me.

 

Then she told me that there were three other books. I was ecstatic.

 

It was a dirty trick. She wouldn't read them to me but she gave them to me to read myself.

 

I struggled through all three (with dictionary at my side).

 

The effort helped me to reading at 5 years over my grade level.

[Rizan]

There's a huge difference between intelligence and knowledge. Knowledge is how much you have learned and know; someone knowledgeable in one particular topic may not be so in another. That doesn't make either person dumb, it just means they have less or even no knowledge pertaining to the subject. Intelligence, as I have always considered it, is not how much you know or how much you have learned, but it is your apt and ability to learn and to gain knowledge. Who is more intelligent: the man that spends ten years learning a certain subject, or the man that gains half of that knowledge within three years? Who is more knowledgeable?

 

Intelligence !== Knowledge

[Greedya]

Being learned or educated does not necessarily make for a better person.

 

Depends on how you define 'learning.'

 

And how you evaluate the worth of a human being.

 

But I generally agree with you that 'formal education' doesn't necessarily make for a 'more socially responsible' person.

 

I am a little saddened by the fact that today's formal education puts too much emphasis on the job market. It trains young minds to respond positively to the market trends, and these herd behaviours and bandwagon effects can be disastrous without sufficient rationalisation. Some ads say, "XXX million members can't be wrong," or "XXX million people have read this book, so you should too," or "A lot of investors are buying this stock, so you should too." The logic is crap. Totally crap. And even people with Ph.D.s from prestigious universities make such mistakes sometimes. I've witnessed that with my own eyes.

 

 

[Marzipan]

I have this friend who I had an argument with about how he thinks I'm uneducated or ignorant and don't know about a lotta things and how he doesn't think it's good. We're not talking about ignorance like a conservative mindset that's unwilling to accept ideas like anti-gays, but I mean things like not knowing classical references, pop culture references and stuff like that. Some things I really just don't have an interest in but I guess there are a lotta things everyone should know just because, but I don't know them, so idk if I'm just dumb or what.

 

Ok, so you may think it's a joke, but before my friend pretty much pushed these books in my face, I've never heard of Gone with the wind, Les Miserables, To Kill Mockingbirds, The Sound of Music, etc. I guess I should know them since I graduated high school but I did go to a pretty ghetto school and kinda skipped a lot, so I missed the day when we were taught Tom Sawyer or things like that. Other than those, people would always make fun of me when I miss references or jokes from Harry Potter, Star Wars, Transformers, whatever because I've never seen those movies or read the books. and people think i'm always just playing but I really didn't know until now that the Egyptian pyramids were built by hand, that Pandas are from China, whatever the hell a Jedi is and and until I just looked this up about 5 minutes ago...I couldn't finish this sentence "land of the free and home of the ____". I know all of them NOW cuz my friend pretty much lectured me for an hour about how stupid I was...some friend he is...

 

So I'm wondering if I'm really just kinda dumb because it's not like I chose to never want to know those thing but I just never were introduce to them and I can't know what I don't know....so when people expect me to get a joke or know something and I don't, it makes me feel dumb. Celebrities always get made fun of when they don't know something that everyone knows, I use to laugh at them too but now I'm wondering people laugh at me behind my back and think of me as one of those people who wouldn't know how to find America on a map.

 

No way you're dumb. Your friend is a one being such an ass.

 

You can educate yourself and learn stuff that you are interested not what's expected. If you're gonna be scared about how people think about you, or laugh at you, you are never gonna be happy. So I suggest that you stop wondering about that and live and learn the way you want. I belive there is so many different kinds of intellectuality, so much that just being book-wise is plain boring.

 

To me being a dumb equeals ignoring other peoples feelings or hurting them.

 

 

 

 

[Greedya]

Knowledge is how much you have learned and know; Intelligence, as I have always considered it, is not how much you know or how much you have learned, but it is your apt and ability to learn and to gain knowledge.

 

I am a little troubled by your definition of knowledge. First, are you implying that knowledge is a posteriori? Secondly, I think knowledge is partial, so you can't perfectly know how much you know. Thirdly, the 'apt and ability' to acquire knowledge is not solely dependent on the learner. As a proponent of externalism, I believe that the cognitive processes depend partly on the learning process and the environment. Finally, there are factors beyond control that may affect the learning process - and intelligence in your definition. For instance, poor people may be too hungry to learn anything. They'd be slow learners due to hunger, but that doesn't really mean they're not intelligent, right?