Writer and Editor Relationship (NB) For all writers and editors.

[LJH]

Writers should be writing constantly and reading. Writing to learn the craft, and reading to find their own style. Writers should be investing in the craft, taking courses, buying books, searching online for handy information about how to use the English language in fiction. Oh, sorry, what did you just say?

 

WRITER: I said that's not necessary because I write as a hobby and not for publication. What, you deaf or something?

 

ME: The reasons we write are varied. You wanna write as a hobby, you wanna write for yourself, for a blog, for a site like GA, then I appeal to you to submit your best attempt. It might serve you well to follow the basic rules of writing....

 

WRITER: Rules?! The only rule is that there are no rules in writing. Get a life. Besides, it's my work, my story. Hey man, I can do what I want with it.

 

ME: Oh, there are rules. Why do you think there are university courses? Professors of literature? You telling me that the rules governing English grammar and punctuation and narrative and dialogue are figments of my imagination? Rules exist in the English language. As for your second point, let me assure you that if your story is poor, and you have no consideration for the rules, then it is not ready for an editor.

 

 

WRITER: You think you are God?

 

ME: I never said that. All I ask is that you submit your best attempt.

 

Okay, that was an imaginary episode in the life of an editor. Believe me, I've had worse, even to the extent of the writer getting personal.

 

Here are some pointers as to how a writer should work with an editor and beta. If you have any tips to add, please post them here.

 

If you send your manuscript or chapter to an editor without knowing how he works, what he edits or how to spell his name, you should know these things.

 

When an editor on GA gives you advice, listen. Editors have invested time and passion in your story. Don't tell me that you have invested time too. That goes without saying, but when you request an editor, then you must respect the time he is investing in you and your work.

 

This next is very important: Do not bother the editor with your first draft. He will return it to you with a terse note The editor deserves to see your very best attempt. Inform the editor that this is the tenth draft, or the fifth, or the eigth. But never send him the first. An editor will see very quickly if you have worked on the story or not.

 

Make an arrangement with your editor regarding whether to send the full manuscript or chapter by chapter.

 

Once the edit has been completed, the editor will return the work to you. You are to make the changes and those changes you do not accept, must be communicated to your editor with the reason.

 

Before submitting the story or chapter to GA, you are required to get the approval from your editor/beta. The reason for this is simple: we offer a quality service and we expect only quality work. If your grammar and punctuation is not up to standard, then it is up to you to get it right, or as reasonably right as possible.

 

Our editors and betas are not here to rewrite your story regarding grammar and punctuation.

 

Editors have the right to give the writer the benefit of the doubt with their first chapter, however, if the writer consistently makes the same errors, and the editor seems to be correcting the same errors over and over, and if the guidelines as set by the editor are not followed, the editor has the right to withdraw.

 

By the same token, a writer must also ensure that the editor knows what he is doing. If the writer finds that the editor is not knowledgeable, then he has the right to retrench the editor and request a new one.

 

 

Quote from an editor: http://edit911.com/book-editing-fiction/

 

• The first thing I try to detect and, in my role as a fiction editor, respect is the text’s latent voice. This involves more than the technicality of identifying narrational point of view. It also is not easy to describe. What I initially try to do is to hear the author’s cadences as they percolate through characters’ dialogical speech patterns, which of course should be distinctive to each. Through them I cock an ear for the echo, register, or stylistic tonality of a writer’s ventriloquism, the kind of nuanced effect found, for example, in John le Carré’s latest production titled Our Kind of Traitor (2010). Attunement to this idiom guides me in proposing editorial changes.

 

• I next concern myself with the credibility of those characters. Do they speak in a manner consistent with their individual depiction and the text’s setting? “Spiffy,” for example, is an inapt description of male attire in 1920s New Hampshire. I also pay close attention to how characters are originally introduced, since such profiling will have a significant bearing on their subsequent roles. Are they plausible, again as gauged in terms of the work’s fictional context, and are their actions congruent with both the story’s events and human psychology? Persuade us that your invented personae are real and that we should care about what happens to them.

 

• Then comes the matter of plot. While verifying that developments jive with previously indicated circumstances, I check for minor lapses. Sometimes this can be a minefield. As in a 5,000-piece puzzle, one wrong detail can derail the entire project. Consultant editors should be fanatically adept at questioning these occasional miscues. Thus, if you do not find that your manuscript comes back to you with at least some marginal queries about plot consistency, something is wrong. Even Homer nodded. We all need another pair of eyes to tell us how we’re doing.

 

• What I look for, finally, in a fictional manuscript is an answer to the question, “So what?” By the narrative’s climax and resolution there should be some indication, however obliquely framed, of its conceptual import. This is another way of saying that the text ought to limn by its end what has been at stake throughout the entire plot. Formulaic or pat closures, of course, should be avoided. The dénouement instead must arise credibly from earlier plot complications and project some larger insight into what has informed them all along. The pay-off for the reader, in other words, should be worth his or her investment of time and attention

 

Unquote

 

 

A rehash of what you, the writer should be doing:

Write

Rewrite

Rewrite × untill it is perfect in your view.

Submit to editor

Wait

Wait some more. If the waiting is too long, send the editor a polite note to remind him.

When the work is returned to you, accept or reject changes.

Inform the editor why you have rejected the change.

Resubmit work to the editor for further editing.

After last edit, get editor and or beta approval.

Submit

 

Stay with these guidelines and you will have gained not just an editor, but a friend.

 

But most important of all, learn the craft.

 

The writer should not:

Submit first draft to editor.

Submit work with substandard punctuation and grammar.

Be impatient.

Submit work without approval from editor and or beta.

 

Should you have any further ideas, let us know via this topic.

 

One last word:

Treat writing like your lifeblood rather than a livelihood. Treat your editor with the respect he/she deserves.

Edited August 17, 2013 by LJH

[thebrinkoftime]

Excellent post. The following opinions may differ somewhat, but I'd like to add them here anyway:

 

-If an editor is reading your stuff and taking the time to comment or revise it thoroughly, it is a sign that they already like your work and would like to see you reach your full potential. If this wasn't the case, we either wouldn't have approached you or offered our help in the first place. (That isn't to say that if no one responds to your requests for help, that your writing is universally hated. There could be other factors involved.)

 

I realize that writing is putting out a part of how you think out into the world, and by extension a piece of you, and when that gets criticized and taken down a notch, it can feel like somebody is directly attacking your personality and how you think. But this isn't the case -- at least not with good editors. Good editors are like parents who love their children and want to see them grow into good adults. They won't abuse you. If you feel they are tearing your piece apart, it is not out of hate that they are doing so.

 

Good editors, at least. I've run into a few failures who like to torture younger writers in the form of an editing job. But these people, in my experience, are rare.

 

-A good editor will also know what they're talking about. Otherwise, they wouldn't have taken on the job. If you think your ideas about 16th century French history are spotless, good for you, but just because your editor may not be as much of an expert as you on this matter does not mean:

 

a. They don't have good criticism.

b. They don't know what they are talking about.

c. They're not taking into account the so-called "real fans" who would read it. It's not the editor's job to line you up with a fan club. It is to consider any type of person who might read it -- the idea that there are always a set of virgin eyes who have the potential to become fans -- and the various points of view of those specifically interested in what you are writing.

 

If the editor is not a botanist and you are, be assured that any good editor would have made sure to know the ABCs of botany very well before accepting to edit your work. A good editor spends time preparing their knowledge beforehand, in many different ways, and if they don't feel confident they can tackle it, they will almost certainly recommend you to somebody else who can.

 

On the other hand, it's also the editors job to consider the point of view of somebody who doesn't know the ABCs of botany. Just because you are writing Advanced Botany Jokes for the Enthusiast: A Primer for Invoking Laughter at High Society Garden Parties does not mean you can completely ignore important parts of a wider majority. Good editors know what the balance should be.

 

-Good editors are stubborn. While dialogue can and should happen, don't be discouraged by editors who won't let an issue go. This sense of intuition is extremely important in a good editor. It's like a doctor can't find anything technically wrong with a patient, but they just know somehow they are missing something potentially deadly to that person's health. It's the same thing with an editor. They often have a good sense of when some small thing will make the reader squint their eyes at the work and start to question its structural integrity. Respect the feng shui, man, respect the feng shui!

 

-Finally, there is a breed of editor that is becoming an endangered species -- the type who is exceedingly anal about how the actual finished physical product will look like. This editor is somebody who can visualize how it will read on a variety of devices and in different settings, and scrutinize the minutiae of how long a paragraph or sentence is right down to the letter or punctuation mark. These people may seem like weird jerks to you, but if only you knew the amount of knowledge they possess that is dying and not being passed on, you would know that they deserve your respect. They're kind of like the Jedi Masters of the editing world.

 

Also, this:

 

 

"Spiffy,” for example, is an inapt description of male attire in 1920s New Hampshire.

 

While a nice little aside for the reader who is completely unaware of elements of style in narration, I find a little too pithy and misleading for a more experienced writer. Spiffy could be a particularly apt description of male attire in 1920s New Hampshire, depending on who is narrating, the context and what kind of piece it is. Of course, I realize this is an editor informing a writer who isn't aware that all older types of slang are not made equal and a possible anecdote to my second point above, I still feel I had to point that out. I get the feeling that a writer who unquestioningly believes in every piece of advice like scripture might limit themselves if they took bits like this too seriously and applied them without thinking about what they could also do to subvert expectations.

 

Leave it to the editor in me to nitpick something like this!

[Andy78]

I have been on both sides of this equation, having edited for several writers on and off site, as well as having my own stories beta'ed.

 

The old adage about a second pair of eyes is very true.  It's amazing how often I spot when something is off in someone else's story, but can miss the most blindingly obvious spelling mistake or missing word in my own (no matter how many times I've edited and rewritten before submitting).

 

I think the most important thing is, as Louis has mentioned, the second edit.  Any time an author changes their story in any way ahead of submission it should really be re-edited/re-beta'ed.  It's the only way to guarantee that a new spelling error or grammatical error hasn't magically appeared.  I will quite often have a chapter beta'ed three times before it's just right (in the case of one chapter it took four beta reads).  There are also often things that might not occur to an editor or beta reader the first time through, but will be picked up on the re-read.

 

One thing for us as editors and beta readers to remember (which I myself am guilty of forgetting at times) is that at the end of the day the story belongs to the author.

[rustle]

A few additions:

 

Unpaid betas/editors work out of love, just like unpaid authors. But the exigencies of life can reset priorities.

 

Authors, editors, communicate your expectations. That includes your timetable. Please be specific. "I'd like this back by next Thursday, so I can review the edits, and post the Monday following. Will that work for you?" If you confirm that the timetable is workable in advance, the editor/beta has an opportunity to commit, withdraw, or negotiate a different timetable. Editors, keep in touch with your author, especially if a plot bunny just intruded into your real life.

 

Authors, what do you want from your beta/editor? General feedback, or detailed line edits? Maybe something in between?

 

It's a lot easier to work with someone you respect. It's a joy to work with someone you like. It's a blessing to work on a project you love.

[Cia]

My advice for authors can be summed up in two words.

 

 Learn!

 

An author is a jack of all trades. They can know a little bit about a lot of things, but the one thing they have to know a lot about is writing. Therefore, learn. Learn the rules, learn your genre, learn your subject, learn your audience, learn your marketing, learn humility because what you should really learn is ... to do all that you should never grow complacent about what you know at any one moment, and you really do need help.

 

Respect!

 

Treat the help you are offered with the respect it deserves. The saying is that it takes a village to raise a child. Well it takes a whole heck of a lot more than one person to create quality writing too. It may be your story, but without the researcher who shares their knowledge, the beta/editor who take their personal time to provide the polish, or the reader who creates the market to read or purchase your story ... you'd have next to nothing.

[LJH]

The point of this post is simple: as writers, we should be rewriting our work until we are blue in the face or until ink in our pens run dry. Writing is a labour of love, and having written a book or a short story without respecting the rules of the craft is tantamount to disaster. Naturally we are possessive of our creation. We don't want it to be hijacked by an editor. This is the reason I have requested the editor to return the work to the writer if the work is not ready.

 

Jo Ann and I will be here to support any beta and editor who has experienced this problem or has this problem right now.

 

Do not continue editing the work if it is not ready. If you have notified the writer with your concern and he/she persists in sending you sub-standard work, please let us know and we will make contact with the author.

[Myk]

I wonder what happened to prompt a thread such as this...

 

There are some good points here, but I feel what started out as an advice thread has taken a tone that to me reads as almost, demanding?  I feel an author/editor relationship is a private one. How it works is between the two of them. If it doesn't work, the relationship will not last. Perhaps when the site works to match authors and editors there is a need to mediate these relationships. Still, I feel if they can't be self regulated, there isn't much of a point. So yes, a lot of these points have merit but each partnership is unique and works differently.

 

In the end, I agree with cia's comments. If you can actually learn from one another and show respect for each other then you are on the right track. 

[LJH]

You are right, Myk.

 

The key is to learn from, and respect each other which I advocate. Many of our editors want to help our writers produce quality fiction. I am a line by line editor, a developmental editor and a grammar nazi. Other editors are different, they give suggestions where the grammar is poor, others show where the gremlins are eating away at the story. We are all different in our approach to editing. All I am asking is that the writer be passionate, and sends his very best attempt to his editor. I am asking that the writer learn the craft. That the writer should not repeat the mistakes. Once an editor has completed a chapter, the writer should be going through the rest of his manuscript fixing the same errors. That's not demanding, to me it's a logical step. If, by asking, I am demanding, so be it.

 

The key is passion.

[Myk]

You are right, Myk.

 

The key is to learn from, and respect each other which I advocate. Many of our editors want to help our writers produce quality fiction. I am a line by line editor, a developmental editor and a grammar nazi. Other editors are different, they give suggestions where the grammar is poor, others show where the gremlins are eating away at the story. We are all different in our approach to editing. All I am asking is that the writer be passionate, and sends his very best attempt to his editor. I am asking that the writer learn the craft. That the writer should not repeat the mistakes. Once an editor has completed a chapter, the writer should be going through the rest of his manuscript fixing the same errors. That's not demanding, to me it's a logical step. If, by asking, I am demanding, so be it.

 

The key is passion.

 

This post sounds reasonable, maybe if you believe that so much it should be part of a 'contract' or better yet a pledge an author agrees to when he asks for an editor/beta through the program. Of course half the program is keeping up with who has posted for help and who has offered, in which case they wouldn't be agreeing to anything here. 

 

Of course I wouldn't agree to such a thing because I believe learning and respect are so innate to the process that any editor confronted with an author who is disrespectful should simply tell them to fuck off. (I mean politely tell them they can no longer help them)

[Drak]

You are right, Myk.

 

The key is to learn from, and respect each other which I advocate. Many of our editors want to help our writers produce quality fiction. I am a line by line editor, a developmental editor and a grammar nazi. Other editors are different, they give suggestions where the grammar is poor, others show where the gremlins are eating away at the story. We are all different in our approach to editing. All I am asking is that the writer be passionate, and sends his very best attempt to his editor. I am asking that the writer learn the craft. That the writer should not repeat the mistakes. Once an editor has completed a chapter, the writer should be going through the rest of his manuscript fixing the same errors. That's not demanding, to me it's a logical step. If, by asking, I am demanding, so be it.

 

The key is passion.

 

I am puzzled as to the motives of volunteer editors, because it seems like work without much possibility of reward, unless the relationship becomes reciprocal. It is difficult to find a well-matched pair, because some people believe strongly that technical matters are irrelevant and that apparent lapses are instead an intrinsic part of their personal style, flavor and warmth. There is a bit of elitism in the technicalities, which are easier for some than others. But that is also true of every other art and every human endeavor. I think it's awfully difficult to make anything half-way to being good, but if I can manage a good page or two, every now and then, that's dandy.

 

Authors receive critiques in a manner depending on their level of maturity. My favorite critique was the harshest, and I kept it on file for years because it was so clever. When I was very young, I was the stereotypical sensitive writer, but I've had enough feedback over the years to develop a tough skin. The best critiques are withering. One doesn't have to accept all that is said in a critique, after all. I remember my best friend, at my request, wrote a lengthy line-by-line critique of one of my stories once, and I was shocked by all the flaws he found, which had been completely invisible to me. There is definitely something lost in the transcribing of an image in our minds to the words on paper, and the best writers are the most accurate transcriptionists who can capture the images with the most accuracy. A writer is subject to self-deception. I am constantly looking at stories with fresher eyes and finding new problems. The funny thing is, maybe a decade later, I remembered verbatim everything he said and had the time to address all of the items he had pointed out to me, so many indeed that I had despaired of ever doing anything with the story. Not a single thing he told me was wasted. I even recalled the punctuation he used, whether exclamation mark or period. I followed probably ninety or ninety-five per cent of his advice, and the few things I didn't follow was not because I forgot, but because I disagreed in part or in whole.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Drak

[JamesSavik]

I always respect my editor!

 

It's a difficult job and, as I grow and get better as a writer, my mistakes are more complex.

 

The way I see it, there are several levels of editor.

 

Level One spots mistakes in grammar, usage and spelling. This is quite useful. I can't tell you the number of times MS-Word lies to me about the proper spelling for the proper word. I call it auto-incorrect. These are really difficult to spot. The computer said it was right... *&^%ing joker!

 

Level Two offers comments and suggestion for rewriting scenes or passages. This is awesome because another set of eyes might see things you miss.

 

Level Three is another author you respect doing the editing. One that can act as a drill instructor. If you get one of these, you are extremely lucky. You'll learn from the experience and get better because of it.

 

When I did my anthology story, I had a level 3 editor. Actually I had two and the advice and coaching made it a much, much better story.

 

A Priceless Piece of advice in dealing with editors: be humble. We've all got a lot to learn about this craft. None of us are Joe Conrad or Steven King.

 

Put your ego on the shelf and listen to what they have to say. The advice is free. You don't HAVE to take it.

 

The smart play is to listen carefully and give it some thought.

[Drak]

I always respect my editor!

 

It's a difficult job and, as I grow and get better as a writer, my mistakes are more complex.

 

The way I see it, there are several levels of editor.

 

Level One spots mistakes in grammar, usage and spelling. This is quite useful. I can't tell you the number of times MS-Word lies to me about the proper spelling for the proper word. I call it auto-incorrect. These are really difficult to spot. The computer said it was right... *&^%ing joker!

 

Level Two offers comments and suggestion for rewriting scenes or passages. This is awesome because another set of eyes might see things you miss.

 

Level Three is another author you respect doing the editing. One that can act as a drill instructor. If you get one of these, you are extremely lucky. You'll learn from the experience and get better because of it.

 

When I did my anthology story, I had a level 3 editor. Actually I had two and the advice and coaching made it a much, much better story.

 

A Priceless Piece of advice in dealing with editors: be humble. We've all got a lot to learn about this craft. None of us are Joe Conrad or Steven King.

 

Put your ego on the shelf and listen to what they have to say. The advice is free. You don't HAVE to take it.

 

The smart play is to listen carefully and give it some thought.

 

Yes, I agree with all of the above, including the level system, but even the level one editors do perceive things besides grammar. After all, there is a reason Stephen King and J.R.R. Tolkien are popular. People can tell when something's good. So the level one editor may not be able to tell you exactly how to fix a problem, but they can perceive a problem all the same, and just a nudge or impulse from them can be enough to alert a writer about hidden problems. Reflect on what they say and try to read the story from their point of view. I think that is an important skill for a writer, being able to see things, including things that are near to the heart, from other points of view.

[Kitt]

I am puzzled as to the motives of volunteer editors, because it seems like work without much possibility of reward, unless the relationship becomes reciprocal.

While I cannot speak for all editors, in my case it is a two-fold return. I can give back a little of the enjoyment I have received from the writers here, and I get to read chapters from some of my favorite authors before anyone else, even if there are a few flaws waiting to be found.

[Cia]

I'll admit it... I read for several authors just so I can get their content earlier than everyone else.

[JamesSavik]

I'll admit it... I read for several authors just so I can get their content earlier than everyone else.

 

And she's awesome too. 

[Sasha Distan]

While I cannot speak for all editors, in my case it is a two-fold return. I can give back a little of the enjoyment I have received from the writers here, and I get to read chapters from some of my favorite authors before anyone else, even if there are a few flaws waiting to be found.

 

I'll admit it... I read for several authors just so I can get their content earlier than everyone else.

 

And we as the authors rely very much on you guys wanting to know what happens before everyone else. Otherwise we'd all have been gobbled up by the spell check monster years ago.

[rustle]

And we as the authors rely very much on you guys wanting to know what happens before everyone else. Otherwise we'd all have been gobbled up by the spell check monster years ago.

 

Don't be dissin' spell check. But be aware of its limitations. A hammer's a great tool, 'til you need a marling spike.

[Irritable1]

I find spell check's really best as an alert while you're writing.

[Kitt]

There are times I find myself arguing with spell check.  It has wanted me to do things like say "We was" as opposed to "We were", and every time someone puts the word "it's" in a story it tells me to change it to its, but if I do it promptly labels it wrong again and insists I change it back to "it's".

[Irritable1]

Kitt, I don't know about grammatical recommendations (edit: those depend partly on the way you set your options), but it's definitely possible for a Word dic file to save an incorrect spelling and try and force it on you afterwards. Let me know if you'd like to discuss it offline.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Irritable1

[JackBinimbul]

I came to this section considering starting the process on getting a beta/editor.  After reading this and other threads by LJH, I have come to the realization that my work will never be ready for an editor lol

 

Maybe I should take up stamp collecting...

[Krista]

I think to sum up what LJH said - as an author that has a reputation for being difficult.

 

1. Respect your work as the author and don't expect the editor to do all the work making it a respectable piece. All that means is, don't write a chapter/story/what have you and then immediately send it to the editor to work on. Read it.. if you read it a couple of times you will find errors you aren't aware of through the writing processes.

 

2. Don't be argumentative on things that the editor suggests changes to. What you may see as the perfect usage, grammar, dialect, etc for that portion of the story, the editor/beta may see just a mess of words that doesn't make sense to people outside of your head. So reworking it would bring it to a level where both the writer and readers can connect.

 

3. Be willing to accept that you make mistakes with your story.

 

4. Explain why you disagree instead of just disagreeing with them by clicking the.. "ignore change" or what ever and never go back to your editor. (I've done this a lot, bad habit to break). Otherwise there is a hole in logic that should be passing between editor and author.

 

5. Be willing to understand that editors don't want to edit the same mistakes over and over again. If you have bad habits like, using It's when it should be Its for example. Or the wrong To, Too, Two. Or if you continuously make the same punctuation errors in dialog -etc. The editor only has enough time and honestly patience to look at a document so many times. If most of their time is spent fixing errors already discussed and never addressed, it can weigh on the editor. Be willing to know or at least become aware of most of them - even if the editor doesn't discuss them with you, if you notice a pattern of 'change' then take it upon yourself to realize that and work on those writing habits that just aren't good.

 

---

 

With all that said:

 

Authors and Editors both need a good working relationship. They need to become accustomed to one another's style of editing or writing and that takes time. It takes a crap ton of patience as well. Allow for some adjustment time and leave egos out of it - or at least try to.

 

These rules that are mentioned can be worked into a personal writing style pretty easily. From my beginnings in writing, I didn't know what I was doing. I was a duck out of water. Although I still have a lot of things to work on, the point is actually sitting down to write. It doesn't have to be perfect from day one on. Editors and Authors alike won't survive if they don't understand that.

 

Trying is half the battle...

Edited October 6, 2015 by Krista

[Valkyrie]

 

 

5. Be willing to understand that editors don't want to edit the same mistakes over and over again. If you have bad habits like, using It's when it should be Its for example. Or the wrong To, Too, Two. Or if you continuously make the same punctuation errors in dialog -etc. The editor only has enough time and honestly patience to look at a document so many times. If most of their time is spent fixing errors already discussed and never addressed, it can weigh on the editor. Be willing to know or at least become aware of most of them - even if the editor doesn't discuss them with you, if you notice a pattern of 'change' then take it upon yourself to realize that and work on those writing habits that just aren't good.

 

---

 

 

This is so true.  It can be very frustrating when an author keeps making the same mistakes over and over. It makes me feel like my suggestions aren't being taken seriously.  I encourage every author I work with to let me know if they don't understand any of the corrections/suggestions that I make, although I try to explain the rationale behind most of the corrections.  Sometimes I'll have authors tell me 'I'm horrible with verb tenses' or 'I need work on being less wordy' or whatever their area of weakness may be.  In that case, it doesn't bother me to be constantly correcting the same mistakes, because the author has made an effort to understand where they need improvement, and in some cases, they may never be able to use the proper verb tense, but instead need to rely on an editor to fix what they know they can't do on their own.  The frustration lies with authors who don't make the effort to understand their areas of strengths and weaknesses, or get offended when they get the edits back. 

 

I do have to say that I count myself very lucky with the relationships I've built on this site, as both an author and an editor.  I've learned a tremendous amount about writing from my team, and from editing/beta reading for others. 

 

I would say to Jack that it never hurts to have a second set of eyes take a look a document, even if it's to proofread for errors that the author may have missed.  We all make silly mistakes at some point. lol  Also, LJH really knows his stuff.  He's a phenomenal editor, who I learned a lot from.  He's the first one to say he can be a bit harsh, but I prefer the term 'thorough'.   

[JackBinimbul]

Meh. My girlfriend proofs everything I write and I want to strangle her over it half the time as it is.  I would have little tolerance for a stranger taking the stance that their word is law with my work.

 

I have neither the time nor the money for writing courses and don't know 90% of the "rules".  While I enjoy and appreciate feedback/error correction, I would be incredibly abrasive toward "change this because I know better than you".  Unless it's someone with expertise in a topic I have misrepresented, rather than my writing itself.  That said, I'm sure that's largely due to me being an asshole.

 

I will say that this section has given me a lot of insight into what an editor actually does, though.  I knew there was a lot of focus on correction and cohesion, but did not know the extent at which they have influence over the final product.  

 

The editors must have been sleeping the day 50 Shades of Grey got through.

[Nick Brady]

I have written quite a few stories posted here on GA and elsewhere. Most of them have been read and corrected for punctuation and minor errors, but seldom for content. I imagine my writing would be improved by a good editor but I'm not sure how to find one.

 

My question is: What is the difference between an Editor and  a Beta reader?

 

How do I acquire the services of an editor and/or beta reader?