Summer by Carlos Hazday

[LitLover]

What I read from Carlos's response was that he didn't think it was reasonable for a closeted guy to go on having affairs with men once he knew he was gay, but that he should leave his wife before continuing to pursue men. Seems like you're actually in agreement. 

 

I'm not sure anyone knows whether Wood cheated or not.  You'll have to see if Carlos answers that one, if he feels like it.

 

Then perhaps I am overreacting if that was the case.  This was my reasoning for my response though:

 

1.  Wood says: “Now you know, Abe, the divorce was because the wife got tired of living out in the woods and because every now and then I got the urging to munch on a juicy tube steak.”  I am at this point, confused if this meant that he cheated on the wife or not, so I ask. To me, again perhaps misunderstanding...it seems like this statement means that this has happened more than once if he did, in fact cheat.

2.Carlos responds:" That false commitment is a much larger problem with me than any dick chasing a man involved in such a travesty may engage in while still married."  Colour me shocked.

 

If I have misunderstood Carlos's response then I am sorry Carlos and I apologize for the rant.  It was uncalled for.  It just appeared to me that he was insinuating that a gay man stepping out his vows to a woman didn't count.  Again...if I misunderstood than I am very sorry.  

Edited February 2, 2015 by LitLover

[Irritable1]

I agree that it's an open question, and possibly a flaw, or at least too much of an omission, in characterization. I don't think it is the latter, but reasonable people can disagree.

[Timothy M.]

I have to admit my initial impression was that he acted on it - but he may only have admitted to the urge. But I guess saying to your wife: "I like your pussy well enough, but I do miss a nice dick now and then" can destroy her feelings after a while.

Even if she does share the liking of sucking cock.

[LitLover]

I have to admit my initial impression was that he acted on it - but he may only have admitted to the urge. But I guess saying to your wife: "I like your pussy well enough, but I do miss a nice dick now and then" can destroy her feelings after a while.

Even if she does share the liking of sucking cock.

 

Exactly. which was why I asked for clarification. It could have easily been him admitting that he really liked men more than women.   Very few women would stick around after that.  

[Irritable1]

Exactly. which was why I asked for clarification. It could have easily been him admitting that he really liked men more than women.   Very few women would stick around after that.  

 

I don't know. They had a kid. People have open marriages, people agree to stuff they think they can deal with and then decide they can't, Wood has said he's bi... the wife's new partner is a drunk so maybe she's not that functional... the possibilities are endless.

[LitLover]

I don't know. They had a kid. People have open marriages, people agree to stuff they think they can deal with and then decide they can't, Wood has said he's bi... the wife's new partner is a drunk so maybe she's not that functional... the possibilities are endless.

 

Again though, that was why I asked for clarification.  I didn't want to assume something about the character based on a statement I could have misunderstood in the story. 

[Irritable1]

Again though, that was why I asked for clarification.  I didn't want to assume something about the character based on a statement I could have misunderstood in the story. 

 

Ok. Full disclosure... I actually got a call, back in college, from my then-Great Love, announcing that his best friend wanted to give him a BJ, and was I cool with this? I explained that he should do what seemed best to him [considerable drama] we stayed together briefly, then we broke up. It was only a few more years ago than whatever happened with Wood and his wife. I don't think of my t-GL as having "cheated" on me, per se (he didn't turn out to be gay, as far as I know, just an equal-opportunity horndog).  I mean, I did at the time, but it was so long ago that it almost seems irrelevant to me as far as character formation, you know? It's not governing my actions today, anyway.

 

This is all very interesting to me as a beta. I'll think harder before I dismiss something next time.

[LitLover]

Ok. Full disclosure... I actually got a call, back in college, from my then-Great Love, announcing that his best friend wanted to give him a BJ, and was I cool with this? I explained that he should do what seemed best to him [considerable drama] we stayed together briefly, then we broke up. It was only a few more years ago than whatever happened with Wood and his wife. I don't think of my t-GL as having "cheated" on me, per se (he didn't turn out to be gay, as far as I know, just an equal-opportunity horndog).  I mean, I did at the time, but it was so long ago that it almost seems irrelevant to me as far as character formation, you know? It's not governing my actions today, anyway.

 

This is all very interesting to me as a beta. I'll think harder before I dismiss something next time.

 

The college BF didn't cheat.  He asked you if you were ok with it.  He essentially had permission, right?

[Irritable1]

The college BF didn't cheat.  He asked you if you were ok with it.  He essentially had permission, right?

 

As a matter of fact, he really didn't because now that I think back, I learned in the aftermath that I ruined everything for them by crying

 

But look, that was a completely disastrous scenario that could have taken place for Wood and his wife. Urging, check, follow through (of sorts) check, break up, check, and yet no cheating. edit: ok ttyl

Edited February 2, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

As a matter of fact, he really didn't because now that I think back, I learned in the aftermath that I ruined everything for them by crying

 

But look, that was a completely disastrous scenario that could have taken place for Wood and his wife. Urging, check, follow through (of sorts) check, break up, check, and yet no cheating.

 

Exactly.  There were a lot of possibilities. that were unknown after that statement by Wood.  I didn't want to assume, so I asked.

[Timothy M.]

And we haven't even considered whether he wanted to share the tasting of non-marital dick.  

and whether the wife was allowed to have fun-on-the-side too (male or female) - if not, then he's a hypocritical bastard - so I'll assume this was an equal-opportunity deal.

[Irritable1]

And we haven't even considered whether he wanted to share the tasting of non-marital dick.  

and whether the wife was allowed to have fun-on-the-side too (male or female) - if not, then he's a hypocritical bastard - so I'll assume this was an equal-opportunity deal.

 

 

I guess my question is, suppose the reader never knows the answer. Can the story stand on its feet and hold your attention without that information?

Edited February 2, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

I guess my question is, suppose the reader never knows the answer. Can the story stand on its feet and hold your attention without that information?

 

It can, if you go on the assumption that Abe, who is admittedly hyper-sensitive about trust and has been cheated on, can deal with things if Wood did cheat on is wife (we would have to assume they talked about this because that statement would likely not pass the notice of a bright man like Abe).  I honestly can't see someone with that level of trust requirement being able to get past a man who cheated on his spouse...unless there were extenuating circumstances, or if he expressed remorse due to age..clouded judgement, learning from his previous choices, etc....which would then, also have to be assumed to be disclosed to Abe outside the scope of the story.  

 

There would have to be a lot of assumptions based on Abe's character, as presented.  

[Irritable1]

 

There would have to be a lot of assumptions based on Abe's character, as presented.  

 

 

And I think that could be a fair criticism of the story.

[Carlos Hazday]

I've said all I'm going to say on the subject of Wood and any extra marital sexual relations he may or may not have had.

 

On a separate note: As an author I'm trying to convey a story, I'm not writing a step by step history of the lives of the characters. Sometimes I'll provide lots of detail on a subject a reader feels is not necessary and other times I'll do a fly by on something a reader wants a scholarly dissertation on. Both of those are extremes but there's a lot of gray in between that whichever road I follow it will still please some and displease others.

 

This is where personal imagination comes in. I've started the painting, go ahead and finish it as you would like to see it finished. I won't always provide numbers matching colors in each blank space. And sometimes I'll do so knowing it'll create controversy.

 

If you ever get the chance, read up on Annie Proulx comments about reader reaction to Brokeback Mountain. She frequently received alternate versions to her story from people who felt they knew better than the author herself. Discussion and commentary are great and I wholeheartedly encourage it, but there are times when the author's vision must be respected and accepted.

 

 

EDIT = Typos corrected

Edited February 2, 2015 by Carlos Hazday

[Timothy M.]

I guess my question is, suppose the reader never knows the answer. Can the story stand on its feet and hold your attention without that information?

 

oh yeah, easily, and anyway there's a long way from whatever Wood did to coming home and finding your partner in bed with a student.

[Irritable1]

oh yeah, easily, and anyway there's a long way from whatever Wood did to coming home and finding your partner in bed with a student.

 

Assumes facts not in evidence  edit: i.e. if we don't know, we don't know.

 

Wait didn't I just say he didn't do anything??? Dear god.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Irritable1

[Carlos Hazday]

Assumes facts not in evidence  edit: i.e. if we don't know, we don't know.

 

Wait didn't I just say he didn't do anything??? Dear god.

 

Ma'am, I'm gonna have to ask you to do another shot. Your thoughts appear to be slightly scattered and the tequila will help pull it all together!

 

[Irritable1]

Ma'am, I'm gonna have to ask you to do another shot. Your thoughts appear to be slightly scattered and the tequila will help pull it all together!

 

 

LOL, get your chuckles in while you can... When Tim sees Chapter Two... 

 

Anyway I have worked it all out with my logical mind. He never had students. Therefore he couldn't have boffed one. QED.

 

Edit: Oh hey, Carlos, did you see this in the Proulx article? 

 

 

 

Proulx said the men writing to her implied that they knew how her characters would behave better than her because of their gender.

 

Gee, that reminds me of someone... 

Edited February 2, 2015 by Irritable1

[Carlos Hazday]

I'm not worried about Tim, Robert Rex scares me. The damn story's not yet complete and he's already suggesting i need to write more about Wood and Abe. For all he knows I could have killed them both at the end of Part 2. Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

Up next a Valentine's Day farce in two parts which is already uploaded and then only Summer for a bit. Just sent out 14 v2 to the editor and I'm not yet finished with my final self edit of 15. Mann is catching up and we can't have that. Trapped with all that snow and nothing to edit could spell trouble for the man!

[LitLover]

I've said all I'm going to say on the subject of Wood and any extra marital sexual relations he may have had or not.

 

On a separate note: As an author I'm trying to convey a story, I'm not writing a step by step history of the lives of the characters. Sometimes I'll provide lots of detail on a subject a reader feels is not necessary and other times I'll do a fly by on something a reader wants a scholarly dissertation on. Both of those are extremes but there's a lot of gray in between that whichever road I follow it will still please some and displease others.

 

This is were personal imagination comes in. I've started the painting, go ahead and finish it as you would like to see it finished. I won't always provide numbers matching colors in each blank space. And sometimes I'll do so knowing it'll create controversy.

 

If you ever get the chance, read up on Annie Proulx comments about reader reaction to Brokeback Mountain. She frequently received alternate versions to her story from people who felt they knew better than the author herself. Discussion and commentary are great and I wholeheartedly encourage it, but there are times when the author's vision must be respected and accepted.

I didn't think I asked for a dissertation, to paint by numbers, or tried to change your story. I only asked, originally, if Wood did cheat on his wife, because I was unclear. Not to criticize, but to clarify. If you don't want the reader to know, then yea, that is your right as the author.

 

Based on my impression of Abe, as presented by you, I would think cheating would be hard for him to get past..in any form. That was MY impression of your character based on the information you presented to me. If I'm wrong and that isn't what the Abe in your head would do or be like then I am wrong in my assumption and that will obviously not be how the story plays out.

[Timothy M.]

LOL, get your chuckles in while you can... When Tim sees Chapter Two... 

 

Anyway I have worked it all out with my logical mind. He never had students. Therefore he couldn't have boffed one. QED.

 

Which HE are you talking about ? I was referring to Abe's partner. - who boffed Abe's student. I think...

 

and why should I be worried about chapter 2 ?

[Irritable1]

 

Which HE are you talking about ? I was referring to Abe's partner. - who boffed Abe's student. I think... 

 

I'm talking about Wood. Proving you right with logic.

 

Chapter Two: never mind. Why start trouble.

[Timothy M.]

Chapter 4 - CHIP

“Oh wow! Cristiano Humberto Israel Pereira, the first letters of all your names make up Chip! Sick!"

 

Chapter 7

“Starting with the absent member of the group, Chip: his nickname was a mystery to me until two days of days ago when the ‘rents and I stopped in at the bank he works at and he gave me one of his business cards. His full name is Carlos Humberto Israel Pereira and Chip is made up from the first letters of each of his names.”

 

HA ! GOTCHA, CARLOS - and I've got a screen print to prove it, so don't think you can sneak off and change it again to confuse a poor honest Dane.

 

Edit - sorry Carlos, for not getting Christiano right - I even went back to the chapter to check, before I wrote it, and thought 'hey, cool Chip has Carlos' first name'. Weird...

Edited February 6, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Timothy M.]

I agree with Tim about Doc. I will keep fingers crossed however I feel that Tim didn't read the same chapter as me or he would have made comments about the very drool-worthy Brian Sims. Why doesn't my local politician look like him?

 

Oh, I did indeed notice him, Bucket.

But there are so many hunky guys there (so glad I have one of Kitt's protective keyboard covers). Have you seen Carlos' gallery of them ?   drooool

 

However, I thought it might be a bit premature to suggest Brian could be a future permanent member of the group. After all, Doc may be wrong about Chip. And maybe Brian has a SO already - though I guess he would have brought him along if this was the case.