Summer by Carlos Hazday

[Bucket1]

Now that's so unfair - two hints that are next to useless. Doc's comments were deliberate and Chip is working long hours...

 

Bloody authors...

 

 

[Carlos Hazday]

Ahhhhh, Bucket!

 

No hidden meaning behind Doc's comment. It was just a device for Brett to make the comment about CJ being welcome into the lives of his dads.

 

Do not fret, Chapter 7 will post in only 6 more days. Here's a hint though, JP has a couple more lines of dialogue in it!

[Bucket1]

Ahhhhh, Bucket!

 

No hidden meaning behind Doc's comment. It was just a device for Brett to make the comment about CJ being welcome into the lives of his dads.

 

Do not fret, Chapter 7 will post in only 6 more days. Here's a hint though, JP has a couple more lines of dialogue in it!

 

Bastard! 

[Timothy M.]

I realize this is not something Euros can relate to, sorry Tim

 

I sort of resent being called the name of the monetary units of most European countries (but not Denmark worse luck). How would you feel if I called you Dollars ?

[Fisherman]

The most sensible comment I’ve read so far in this debate was Bucket’s remark about “sporty, blokey banter and a dad ready to step in if necessary.”  Had to laugh when I realised it was made by a fellow Aussie!

 

Bucket’s correct – here in Oz, the dialogue in chapter 6 would be blokey banter … nothing more. 

 

What appeals to me about ‘Summer’ is the fact that this displaced, emotionally abused teenager has suddenly found himself in an environment where he’s welcome, and where he feels loved.  Even better, he’s being treated as an equal.

 

CJ is 15 going on 20.  He has acknowledged his sexuality and in his new environment, he is being taught to embrace it, rather than feel ashamed of it. 

 

Of course, Cesar and Brett could pack the boy in cotton wool and shield him from the real world.  Or, they could introduce him to that world, with protective eyes on him at all times; watching from a distance as he takes his first tentative steps, and always ready to step in and steer him if he heads in the wrong direction.

 

Carlos, I hope the feedback doesn’t make you feel you need to change the way your story proceeds.  You’re doing a great job so far!

[Carlos Hazday]

The most sensible comment I’ve read so far in this debate was Bucket’s remark about “sporty, blokey banter and a dad ready to step in if necessary.”  Had to laugh when I realised it was made by a fellow Aussie!

 

Bucket’s correct – here in Oz, the dialogue in chapter 6 would be blokey banter … nothing more. 

 

What appeals to me about ‘Summer’ is the fact that this displaced, emotionally abused teenager has suddenly found himself in an environment where he’s welcome, and where he feels loved.  Even better, he’s being treated as an equal.

 

CJ is 15 going on 20.  He has acknowledged his sexuality and in his new environment, he is being taught to embrace it, rather than feel ashamed of it. 

 

Of course, Cesar and Brett could pack the boy in cotton wool and shield him from the real world.  Or, they could introduce him to that world, with protective eyes on him at all times; watching from a distance as he takes his first tentative steps, and always ready to step in and steer him if he heads in the wrong direction.

 

Carlos, I hope the feedback doesn’t make you feel you need to change the way your story proceeds.  You’re doing a great job so far!

 

 

Thank you! There are 15 chapter fully done and other than a little tweak here or there I don't plan on any changes. Almost every single line of dialogue or narration I've written has a purpose behind it. I welcome all possible discussion and will answer almost any question but I won't compromise what I feel is a valid tale in reaction to such comments. I like it when someone makes me think about what I've written, in this case all that 'blokes banter' is based on personal experience. I might suggest those who doubt how real it may be can put on some gear, and spend a few hours in a locker room full of men after a game or pull an all nighter drinking with a bunch of close mates.

[Carlos Hazday]

I sort of resent being called the name of the monetary units of most European countries (but not Denmark worse luck). How would you feel if I called you Dollars ?

 

Oh what the hell, call me a peso, a dollar or anything else but a ruble.... Russia is not a favorite spot.

 

And I'll have you know I look real good in my 'Euro-trash' outfits!

[LitLover]

The most sensible comment I’ve read so far in this debate was Bucket’s remark about “sporty, blokey banter and a dad ready to step in if necessary.”  Had to laugh when I realised it was made by a fellow Aussie!

 

Bucket’s correct – here in Oz, the dialogue in chapter 6 would be blokey banter … nothing more. 

 

What appeals to me about ‘Summer’ is the fact that this displaced, emotionally abused teenager has suddenly found himself in an environment where he’s welcome, and where he feels loved.  Even better, he’s being treated as an equal.

 

CJ is 15 going on 20.  He has acknowledged his sexuality and in his new environment, he is being taught to embrace it, rather than feel ashamed of it. 

 

Of course, Cesar and Brett could pack the boy in cotton wool and shield him from the real world.  Or, they could introduce him to that world, with protective eyes on him at all times; watching from a distance as he takes his first tentative steps, and always ready to step in and steer him if he heads in the wrong direction.

 

Carlos, I hope the feedback doesn’t make you feel you need to change the way your story proceeds.  You’re doing a great job so far!

 

 

Thank you! There are 15 chapter fully done and other than a little tweak here or there I don't plan on any changes. Almost every single line of dialogue or narration I've written has a purpose behind it. I welcome all possible discussion and will answer almost any question but I won't compromise what I feel is a valid tale in reaction to such comments. I like it when someone makes me think about what I've written, in this case all that 'blokes banter' is based on personal experience. I might suggest those who doubt how real it may be can put on some gear, and spend a few hours in a locker room full of men after a game or pull an all nighter drinking with a bunch of close mates.

 

Ok, I am only getting into this once more, then I am not mentioning it again.  I never meant for this to be such a big thing,  

 

I get "sporty, blokey, banter" and I know how men talk to each other. I was the equipment manager for my brother's hockey team for years and believe me, they did not care that I was female when they poked fun at each other.  Hell I even witnessed a real life dick measuring contest between our captain and the captain of the opposing team.  My closest friends have always been guys.   My best friend in the world (before he died several years ago) was gay and so were our closest group of friends. They also did not care that i was female and believe me...I got a lot of tips and there was a lot of sexual innuendo...so this has nothing to do with not understanding camaraderie or banter.  This also has NOTHING to do with not wanting CJ to talk about his sexuality or feel ashamed of it.  

 

A group of bantering adults, mouthy teens in a locker room or group of gay men getting together to have some fun is NOT the same as a group of 30 something sexually experienced men (some of whom have admitted a proclivity for promiscuity in their relationship) telling a 15 year old boy that he has grown up to be hot enough to F*** and to show them what he's got.  My issue is not with the banter itself, it is the person that this particular banter it is being directed towards.   It was not just said by one guy, once, but several men, several times.  You say he is being made to feel like a buddy,being included as an adult.   Is he going to hang out with these guys without his dads?   Are they his friends in his own right?   Could they not have made him feel comfortable with his sexuality without having to hit on him (even in jest)?  "So CJ did you see any hot boys since you got here?" etc,etc. gets them talking and can still involve banter.

 

I don't know any adults, be they male, female, gay or straight who are in their late 20s or older who have minors as good friends (outside of the relationship with the parent/guardian), talk to their friends' kids about their sex lives (without first being asked) or who speak to them with that level of sexual innuendo (or if they do they are taken to task over it).   If you do, then fair enough.   It is your story and your characters.  It just did not strike me as a realistic way that grown men would interact with their friend's 15 year old son.  

 

Ok...rant done.  Going to go and find more flu meds and maybe a cup of tea.  

[Bucket1]

What appeals to me about ‘Summer’ is the fact that this displaced, emotionally abused teenager has suddenly found himself in an environment where he’s welcome, and where he feels loved.  Even better, he’s being treated as an equal.

 

CJ is 15 going on 20.  He has acknowledged his sexuality and in his new environment, he is being taught to embrace it, rather than feel ashamed of it. 

 

Thats the chapter I read. An abused young man was being told it's ok to be who you are. You are one of us and you are welcome. He was included in the banter, made to feel part of the new family.

 

The real"eewwww" factor for me has largely gone unspoken. How can Lourdes and Asshole boot him out of home because he is gay? That's actual abuse, concrete in your face actual abuse of a minor, real not perceived (of course Summer is fiction and not news but you get what I mean). Why does that pass without comment?

[LitLover]

The real"eewwww" factor for me has largely gone unspoken. How can Lourdes and Asshole boot him out of home because he is gay? That's actual abuse, concrete in your face actual abuse of a minor, real not perceived (of course Summer is fiction and not news but you get what I mean). Why does that pass without comment?

 

I don't think it passed without comment.  I think we all unanimously agreed from the beginning that we think she's a bitch and hope that karma or some other force kick her and asshole in the teeth.  

[Bucket1]

I don't think it passed without comment.  I think we all unanimously agreed from the beginning that we think she's a bitch and hope that karma or some other force kick her and asshole in the teeth.  

 

I would be happy with that...

[Kitt]

 

 

The real"eewwww" factor for me has largely gone unspoken. How can Lourdes and Asshole boot him out of home because he is gay? That's actual abuse, concrete in your face actual abuse of a minor, real not perceived (of course Summer is fiction and not news but you get what I mean). Why does that pass without comment?

 

 

I don't think it passed without comment.  I think we all unanimously agreed from the beginning that we think she's a bitch and hope that karma or some other force kick her and asshole in the teeth.  

As LL said - it did not go unnoticed. I believe I said Lourdes and asshole would need to stay well away from me. Us lead mares know how to kick!

[Timothy M.]

Thanks LL for putting both matters so succinctly to rest.

 

Now for another question:

 

So far I've worked out these four couples:

César and Brett (Emperor and Jarhead)

Devon and Rashid (Dragon and King)

Tommy and the (as yet unnamed) Aussie (Potus and Pope)

Matt and Christiano (Doc and Chip)

 

all of the guys except Chip is already on board, so who is the guy with the 'deep bass', they are waiting for? Someone who might cheer up Doc?

 

Edit - sorry Carlos, for not getting Christiano right - I even went back to the chapter to check, before I wrote it, and thought 'hey, cool Chip has Carlos' first name'. Weird...

Edited February 1, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Carlos Hazday]

Thanks LL for putting both matters so succinctly to rest.

 

Now for another question:

 

So far I've worked out these four couples:

César and Brett (Emperor and Jarhead)

Devon and Rashid (Dragon and King)

Tommy and the (as yet unnamed) Aussie (Potus and Pope)

Matt and Carlos (Doc and Chip)

 

all of the guys except Chip is already on board, so who is the guy with the 'deep bass', they are waiting for? Someone who might cheer up Doc?

 

Elite Eight + CJ = Nifty Nine

 

Chapter 4 - CHIP

“Oh wow! Cristiano Humberto Israel Pereira, the first letters of all your names make up Chip! Sick!"

 

Chapter 7 - POPE

   

 

 

[Carlos Hazday]

It's been suggested to me that my Aussie should be a sandgroper... anyone care to explain what that means?

[Bucket1]

It's been suggested to me that my Aussie should be a sandgroper... anyone care to explain what that means?

 

A sandgroper is the best kind of Aussie. A Western Australia. I would vote yes for that.

 

It is also a smallish borrowing insect that "swims" through the sandy soils using flipper like front legs. It's an odd looking creature. I'll try to find a pic.

 

Edit: Not going to win any beauty contests - File:Sandgroper2.png

Edited February 1, 2015 by Bucket1

[Carlos Hazday]

A sandgroper is the best kind of Aussie. A Western Australia. I would vote yes for that.

 

It is also a smallish borrowing insect that "swims" through the sandy soils using flipper like front legs. It's an odd looking creature. I'll try to find a pic.

 

LMAO... I mentioned chatting with someone from Perth and my friend said something about me keeping company with Sandgropers! All this Aussie talk has me wanting a six pack of VBs!

[Carlos Hazday]

Oh, and just so you know, I own a t-shirt from Fraser Motors in Pert! It was a gift from an Aussie I met in Nashville a couple of years ago. We both pulled in at the same time and started checking each other's motorcycles out. Had a great time hanging out together!

[Carlos Hazday]

Speaking of t-shirts...

 

 

 

 

[Bucket1]

 

I'm liking the stretch stories like TF and L&P. Sort of mega prompts. Great idea.

 

(insert clever line linking this back to Summer so I don't get scolded for being off topic  )

[Carlos Hazday]

Hey B...

 

I'm under the impression I can define parameters for what may be discussed in forums associated with anything I publish. That being the case, comments about ANY of my characters or ANY of my stories will not be considered off-topic. Hell if it was up to me I'd just create one single forum in which to discuss them all.

 

I hadn't thought about it as mega-prompts but I like it. While Summer is an ongoing tale about family and friends, everything else gives me a chance to explore a variety of topics in a discrete manner. I hope to keep the mega-prompts' word count withing the accepted limits for a short story instead of venturing into other categories. I'm certain my 'aura' will be recognizable across the entire body of work but there should be some difference between weredolphins in Canada and a teenager in Washington, DC

 

L&P was meant to be a little, silly love story which got away from me and acquired a more serious tone. I'll try for again for a SLS

[LitLover]

"I was fortunate in never having married a woman under false pretenses as many gay men have. That false commitment is a much larger problem with me than any dick chasing a man involved in such a travesty may engage in while still married. If he had needs only men could satisfy and he tried to satisfy them I don't have a problem. If he remains married and keeps on doing it then it would be an issue with me. What goes on in the mind of a closeted gay man is something not even another gay man can fathom, the demons we have to deal are not pretty. So I will try not to throw stones his way. I will however celebrate anyone who is able to at some point accept himself and be honest with the world from that point on."

 

Really?  Because he cheated on a woman with a man it it doesn't count as cheating?  He made a commitment to this woman...it wasn't a false commitment if he promised to love and honour, just a hard one to keep if he was gay, closet notwithstanding.  If he wanted "dick" then the honourable thing to do is leave her first.   It sounds like he did this more than once until SHE got tired of it and left him.  And your Abe (who caught his lover cheating on him and who believes trust is so important) would be ok with this?  Seriously?  

 

EDIT:  At the very least he could at least sound remorseful that he was unable to honour his marriage vows.  

 

I know this is not the forum for this story, but this kind of blew me away.  

Edited February 2, 2015 by LitLover

[Irritable1]

"I was fortunate in never having married a woman under false pretenses as many gay men have. That false commitment is a much larger problem with me than any dick chasing a man involved in such a travesty may engage in while still married. If he had needs only men could satisfy and he tried to satisfy them I don't have a problem. If he remains married and keeps on doing it then it would be an issue with me. What goes on in the mind of a closeted gay man is something not even another gay man can fathom, the demons we have to deal are not pretty. So I will try not to throw stones his way. I will however celebrate anyone who is able to at some point accept himself and be honest with the world from that point on."

 

Really?  Because he cheated on a woman with a man it it doesn't count as cheating?  He made a commitment to this woman...it wasn't a false commitment if he promised to love and honour, just a hard one to keep if he was gay, closet notwithstanding.  If he wanted "dick" then the honourable thing to do is leave her first.   It sounds like he did this more than once until SHE got tired of it and left him.  And your Abe (who caught his lover cheating on him and who believes trust is so important) would be ok with this?  Seriously?  

 

EDIT:  At the very least he could at least sound remorseful that he was unable to honour his marriage vows.  

 

I know this is not the forum for this story, but this kind of blew me away.  

 

 

I can't spend much time on this today but here are my reasons for disagreeing:

 

1) Wood was divorced over 12 years ago. What he did during that time may POSSIBLY count as "formative experiences" but he's matured since then. He may have had other experiences where men and/or women cheated on him. We don't know. We are not privy to the entirety of both men's history.

 

2) we don't know that he cheated at all. He says he wanted to be with men. In fact he says so to Abe, directly. It's no secret. Whether he acted on it, this is something that isn't clarified (edit: so I see no reason for remorse in that event). As the beta reader, I considered asking Carlos to expand on it, but didn't, because I didn't think it mattered to the action in the story.

 

Edit: and honestly I've heard so many straight people talk about "starter marriages" that I find it hard to imagine that Abe couldn't get his head around something that happened a decade ago. There are gaps in the narrative. They'll need to be accepted or it's just not going to work for the reader at all.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

I can't spend much time on this today but here are my reasons for disagreeing:

 

1) Wood was divorced over 12 years ago. What he did during that time may POSSIBLY count as "formative experiences" but he's matured since then. He may have had other experiences where men and/or women cheated on him. We don't know. We are not privy to the entirety of both men's history.

 

2) we don't know that he cheated at all. He says he wanted to be with men. In fact he says so to Abe, directly. It's no secret. Whether he acted on it, this is something that isn't clarified. As the beta reader, I considered asking Carlos to expand on it, but didn't, because I didn't think it mattered to the action in the story.

1). OK, that's fair. If that is he case then some remorse, instead of it being a joke would have been nice.

2). In my review I asked for clarification if Wood cheated because I thought I misread that, this was my answer. It seemed, to me, like admission that he did cheat based on Carlos's response. Maybe I misread that.

 

It really was more of a question about the character's history and I was shocked by the response.

[Irritable1]

What I read from Carlos's response was that he didn't think it was reasonable for a closeted guy to go on having affairs with men once he knew he was gay, but that he should leave his wife before continuing to pursue men. Seems like you're actually in agreement.

 

I'm not sure anyone knows whether Wood cheated or not.  You'll have to see if Carlos answers that one, if he feels like it.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Irritable1