Summer by Carlos Hazday

[Kitt]

Interesting that you take umbrage with what I said when I thought I was agreeing with you - that while it may have been slightly out of line it was in keeping with the sort of banter the elite eight usually engage in, and Cesar handled it nicely - using humor to put a stop to it.

 

In the age of the internet the best any parent can do is teach the child to the best of our abilities and pray it sank in. One has to let go and let their child make their own choices sooner or later, and I am a proponent of teaching them well and going for sooner when we are around to help clean up the mess if they screw up.

 

And fictional they may be - but I have had first hand experience with parents like Lourdes and Rich. It damn near got me arrested! 

[Carlos Hazday]

I'm not talking about whether or not women should wear burkas or whether or not gay men should be around children.  I'm saying that, as a mom, no grown man or woman should ever say to my 15 year old child "hey if you like chocolate I would totally kick my partner out of bed and **** you instead" or "hey lift your shirt so I can see what you look like".  It might be a joke, but I would flip on any friend of mine who did that.

 

Don't mistake me, I am very open about sex with my kids.  I bought them their first condoms (and still grab them for my son when he runs out - because I do NOT want to be a grandmother right now) and I bought my daughter her first vibrator (TMI, I know).  I know teenagers have sex and I know they are sexually curious.  I am not sexually repressed, but do I think their are certain things that adults should not say to a friend's child...how does that make me the same as CJ's stepdad?

 

 

It doesn't make you the same as Rich or the same as anyone else. My point is that what you consider inappropriate behavior in front of your children is based on your own beliefs and approach to parenting. Others may see things different. You're neither right nor wrong in your approach in the absolute. If it works for you and your family then it's right for you but why should you then assume it should also work for every other parent.

 

Funny thing is I never thought the interaction with those guys would lead to this conversation, it was actually meant to show a bunch of older men banding together to provide support for a kid who had been thrown away by his 'loving' mother and stepfather.

 

The discussion about projecting our beliefs unto others and assuming our way was the correct way to the exclusion of others, was meant to happen at a later point in time in the story. I may need to go modify some things so I don't appear to be beating a dead horse.

 

CJ's sexuality and his interactions with these men and some other characters are central to the story. Whereas the "come ons" you find objectionable will not entirely disappear, I think they eventually mellow out. In the tale this is the first time the 'uncles' have seen the boy after a growth spurt and he'll now be a permanent part of their lives, not just a visitor for a few weeks. Their dealings with him are becoming much more the dealings between friends than between a bunch of guys and their friend's little boy.

 

One other thing, just as my previous comment about the equality/inequality between the sexes questioned the way mothers and fathers treat their sons and daughters differently, I'd like to point out that the sexual orientation of the parents will also affect how the youngsters are dealt with. With no estrogen in the crowd the experience would be very different from anything in which a woman was involved. The mere presence of a female will significantly alter the dynamics of the group. Just as I'm sure a man would alter the behavious of a group of females by his presence.

[Kitt]

 

 

One other thing, just as my previous comment about the equality/inequality between the sexes questioned the way mothers and fathers treat their sons and daughters differently, I'd like to point out that the sexual orientation of the parents will also affect how the youngsters are dealt with. With no estrogen in the crowd the experience would be very different from anything in which a woman was involved. The mere presence of a female will significantly alter the dynamics of the group. Just as I'm sure a man would alter the behavious of a group of females by his presence.

Like I said - men and women are hinged differently - both physically and mentally.  What is acceptable in a stag or hen grouping is different from mixed company.

[Carlos Hazday]

Like I said - men and women are hinged differently - both physically and mentally.  What is acceptable in a stag or hen grouping is different from mixed company.

 

 

LMFAO

 

I actually wrote hen house and then changed it! I wanted to make sure a little joke didn't detract for the seriousness of my comment!

 

Kitt, to the rescue!!!

[LitLover]

It doesn't make you the same as Rich or the same as anyone else. My point is that what you consider inappropriate behavior in front of your children is based on your own beliefs and approach to parenting. Others may see things different. You're neither right nor wrong in your approach in the absolute. If it works for you and your family then it's right for you but why should you then assume it should also work for every other parent.

 

Funny thing is I never thought the interaction with those guys would lead to this conversation, it was actually meant to show a bunch of older men banding together to provide support for a kid who had been thrown away by his 'loving' mother and stepfather.

 

The discussion about projecting our beliefs unto others and assuming our way was the correct way to the exclusion of others, was meant to happen at a later point in time in the story. I may need to go modify some things so I don't appear to be beating a dead horse.

 

CJ's sexuality and his interactions with these men and some other characters are central to the story. Whereas the "come ons" you find objectionable will not entirely disappear, I think they eventually mellow out. In the tale this is the first time the 'uncles' have seen the boy after a growth spurt and he'll now be a permanent part of their lives, not just a visitor for a few weeks. Their dealings with him are becoming much more the dealings between friends than between a bunch of guys and their friend's little boy.

 

One other thing, just as my previous comment about the equality/inequality between the sexes questioned the way mothers and fathers treat their sons and daughters differently, I'd like to point out that the sexual orientation of the parents will also affect how the youngsters are dealt with. With no estrogen in the crowd the experience would be very different from anything in which a woman was involved. The mere presence of a female will significantly alter the dynamics of the group. Just as I'm sure a man would alter the behavious of a group of females by his presence.

You'll notice I never disparaged Cesar at all over what happened. I even said I like Cesar and Brett and that they are good dads with CJ. I just said as a mom it gave me that "Ewww" reaction. Unless it's abusive, I don't believe in interfering in how others raise their children.

[Timothy M.]

I had to go back and read again, and the interesting part is how CJ's dads responded to the teasing, in relation to the teen's reaction.

 

The first time is when CJ is asked to lift his T-shirt:

The boy was aware of his body but was embarrassed by such blatant displays of attention.
“Fuck! The dude has a great little six-pack. If he eats right and continues lifting it’ll get real sharp soon; hell, an eight pack is even a possibility.”
“That’s my son there, you bastard!” said César laughing, as he slapped the big guy’s arm.
In this case César signals (even if jokingly) to watch out, he's not gong to tolerate them upsetting CJ.

in the subsequent teasings we aren't showed CJ's reaction, but Brett and King call Dragon on his behavior.

 

The second time is on the boat:

“Dammit, boy! What have you been doing over the past few months? You’re almost as tall as your dad and it feels as if you have no fat on you. Woof!”
“That’s it. If all our friends are going to feel up our boy, we’re just gonna have to lock him up in his room until he turns forty!” exclaimed César, laughing at the kid’s blushing.
“Jealous much, babe?”
“Fucking A, Brett, damn right I’m jealous! I don’t like the competition or not being the hottest one in the crowd! I miss my glory days.” That last comment was met with heckles and laughter from all those present.
CJ seems shy about the attention OR by his dad's joke, so César immediately diverts it to himself, with the help of Brett.

 

The third time is later on the boat:

“CJ! G’day, mate, bloody good to see ya again! Lifting weights a lot I see; take all those clothes off and show us what you’ve got, stud.”
“This is getting monotonous!” whined César.  “Come on, Brett, we’re leaving this pack of old farts and taking our son home. Are you all so damn horny that you have to drool over a high school guy?”
“Hi, Uncle Pope, Uncle Matt,” greeted CJ, smiling and blowing off his dad’s rant.

Now this time CJ clearly seems fine, and is even dismissing César's concerns.

 

If CJ had continued to be uncomfortable with this banter and loaded compliments on his looks, I'm sure the guys would have backed off - and if they hadn't, César would have made it clear what the boundaries are.

In addition, if CJ later mentions being uncomfortable to his dads I bet they would pay attention and adjust their own behavior accordingly and ask their friends to do the same.

 

My main objection would actually be if they did this sort of thing in the presence of others (not part of their circle), since that could cause unfounded suspicion of them as sexual predators of youngsters and an impression of CJ as open to seductive behavior from older men. Either would be bad. But I noticed Chip was completey professional in the bank in ch 3 and so was Doc.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Carlos Hazday]

You'll notice I never disparaged Cesar at all over what happened. I even said I like Cesar and Brett and that they are good dads with CJ. I just said as a mom it gave me that "Ewww" reaction. Unless it's abusive, I don't believe in interfering in how others raise their children.

 

Good LL. I have no issues with you having a ewww reaction or bashing somebody in if they something like this with your kids. But as I don't try to force "my/Cesar/Brett's approach to parenting on anyone I want to make sure others realize they have to abide by the same rules. I may disagree with someone's approach and find it unacceptable but far be it from me to say mine is the only way!

 

I had to go back and read again, and the interesting part is how CJ's dads responded to the teasing, in relation to the teen's reaction.

 

The first time is when CJ is asked to lift his T-shirt:

The boy was aware of his body but was embarrassed by such blatant displays of attention.

“Fuck! The dude has a great little six-pack. If he eats right and continues lifting it’ll get real sharp soon; hell, an eight pack is even a possibility.”

“That’s my son there, you bastard!” said César laughing, as he slapped the big guy’s arm.

In this case César signals (even if jokingly) to watch out, he's not gong to tolerate them upsetting CJ.

in the subsequent teasings we aren't showed CJ's reaction, but Brett and King call Dragon on his behavior.

 

The second time is on the boat:

“Dammit, boy! What have you been doing over the past few months? You’re almost as tall as your dad and it feels as if you have no fat on you. Woof!”

“That’s it. If all our friends are going to feel up our boy, we’re just gonna have to lock him up in his room until he turns forty!” exclaimed César, laughing at the kid’s blushing.

“Jealous much, babe?”

“Fucking A, Brett, damn right I’m jealous! I don’t like the competition or not being the hottest one in the crowd! I miss my glory days.” That last comment was met with heckles and laughter from all those present.

CJ seems shy about the attention OR by his dad's joke, so César immediately diverts it to himself, with the help of Brett.

 

The third time is later on the boat:

“CJ! G’day, mate, bloody good to see ya again! Lifting weights a lot I see; take all those clothes off and show us what you’ve got, stud.”

“This is getting monotonous!” whined César.  “Come on, Brett, we’re leaving this pack of old farts and taking our son home. Are you all so damn horny that you have to drool over a high school guy?”

“Hi, Uncle Pope, Uncle Matt,” greeted CJ, smiling and blowing off his dad’s rant.

Now this time CJ clearly seems fine, and is even dismissing César's concerns.

 

If CJ had continued to be uncomfortable with this banter and loaded compliments on his looks, I'm sure the guys would have backed off - and if they hadn't, César would have made it clear what the boundaries are.

In addition, if CJ later mentions being uncomfortable to his dads I bet they would pay attention and adjust their own behavior accordingly and ask their friends to do the same.

 

My main objection would actually be if they did this sort of thing in the presence of others (not part of their circle), since that could cause unfounded suspicion of them as sexual predators of youngsters and an impression of CJ as open to seductive behavior from older men. Either would be bad. But I noticed Chip was completey professional in the bank in ch 3 and so was Doc.

 

The last exchange was meant to show  CJ had either accepted or become resigned to being teased. They wanna tease him, fine. Just remember that teasing goes both ways. and

 

There are things I've done or said while in the company of friends which I'd never repeat in a bank or a museum. Not because they might be wrong but to avoid having to deal with some idiotic attitude from civilians.

 

Although one time while walking down Lincoln Road in South Beach I noticed a man and a woman give disapproving looks when two young guys walked by holding hands. I stopped right in front of them, turned my friend around and stuck my tongue as far down his throat as I could before turning to the couple, smiling at them and saying hi. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!

[LitLover]

Haha it's funny, I never thought this would turn into such a debate. I only meant to explain why I said "Ewww factor" in my review. Lol.

Edited January 30, 2015 by LitLover

[Irritable1]

Just read the chapter. I'm a bit puzzled too, Carlos. Are these kinds of interactions with a kid something you've actually witnessed? In my experience, gay parents are strict about this stuff. I mean, I only know lesbian moms at this point, but I cannot begin to imagine a a real-life gay male acquaintance saying this kind of stuff to a friend's child.

Just read the chapter. I'm a bit puzzled too, Carlos. Are these kinds of interactions with a kid something you've actually witnessed? In my experience, gay parents are strict about this stuff. I mean, I only know lesbian moms at this point, but I cannot begin to imagine a a real-life gay male acquaintance saying this kind of stuff to a friend's child.

 

Edit: and if I said something about boinking a friend's teen... Gay or straight, they'd never find my body.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Irritable1

[Carlos Hazday]

Just read the chapter. I'm a bit puzzled too, Carlos. Are these kinds of interactions with a kid something you've actually witnessed? In my experience, gay parents are strict about this stuff. I mean, I only know lesbian moms at this point, but I cannot begin to imagine a a real-life gay male acquaintance saying this kind of stuff to a friend's child.

 

Edit: and if I said something about boinking a friend's teen... Gay or straight, they'd never find my body.

 

Did you just quote your response in your response?

 

No, yes and there you go, thank you for answering your own question!

 

 

No, I've never observed anything just like this, the events in the story are 100% fictional a product of my mind and probably a couple of cocktails

 

Yes, I've observed similar behaviour. Quoting from my reply to a review: The banter between them all is mostly based on personal experience. I've been involved in a few similar exchanges (no female presents.) One of the funniest involved a gay biker buddy of mine and his 17-year-old straight son. Good looking red-haired kid with a sharp tongue and he gave no quarter when dishing out his own barbs. Brad, my friend eventually relaxed and realized there was no malice intended on our part and that Ryan could handle us without dad's help.

 

There you go, you've not interacted with gay men and if women are from Venus and men are from Mars, gay men are from Jupiter and lesbians are from Pluto. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. Take all the stereotypes about flannel shirts and bierkenstocks  or about sex, drug and house music and you'll find where there's smoke there's fire. Inbred motherly instincts, social expectations, nesting instincts or whatever it may be, the shades of gray between gay men and lesbians is very real.

 

I once told you I was not ready to write a strong female character and this is one of the reasons. I've interacted with plenty of lesbians through my community involvement and with a few on a friendly basis... I have no idea how their minds work. I've blown my top more than once because a meeting which could have ended in 15 minutes by taking a quick vote gets dragged out for hours as we explore everybody's opinions and feelings and try no to offend anyone. Just as I'm creating gay men characters drawing from my personal relations, if I did the same with lesbians, I'd probably have a lynching mob after me (Cindy, if you're reading this I know you and your girlfriend are not part of the lynching mob!).

 

One other comment, you've acknowledged before you're an overprotective mother, If I made an off color joke in front of your son you'd probably go buy a gun. And that's fine 'cause that's the way you are. My mother is like you in many ways and it's the main reason we don't get along. My life would have been a bit smoother if she had allowed me to bump my head a few times while I was still young enough to heal quickly.

 

I love how you and others react strongly to what I wrote, tells me I'm doing something correctly. Just keep in mind these are gay men we're dealing with, the chances are a woman will never fully relate to the way we interact.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Carlos Hazday

[Irritable1]

GODDAMN. I HAVE TOO INTERACTED WITH GAY MEN! I just don't know any gay male parents at this precise moment!

 

Jeez Louise!!!

 

Edit: seriously? I suspect it has more to do with the fact that I only associate with nerds. I really don't think it's a male/female gay/straight thing.

 

I'll leave the error in my post so yours doesn't sound weird

 

e other comment, you've acknowledged before you're an overprotective mother, If I made an off color joke in front of your son you'd probably go buy a gun. And that's fine 'cause that's the way you are. My mother is like you in many ways and it's the main reason we don't get along. My life would have been a bit smoother if she had allowed me to bump my head a few times while I was still young enough to heal quickly.

 

My love, if you tell my 12 year old youre a "Truvada whore" I'll be pissed off because I don't want to be discussing your HIV status every 20 minutes till he moves out. Kids assume if you tell them something it's because it's important to their lives.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Irritable1

[Kitt]

 Kids assume if you tell them something it's because it's important to their lives.

Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, as they get older this is less and less of an issue. In fact when Wings was an older teen (17 to 19 range) very little I said was considered important. Thank god now that she is in her mid 20's things are leveling out!

[Irritable1]

In fairness my kid's a bit of a worrier. "I'M SURE UNCLE CARLOS IS PERFECTLY FINE..." God, I'm tensing up just thinking about it

[Carlos Hazday]

GODDAMN. I HAVE TOO INTERACTED WITH GAY MEN! I just don't know any gay male parents at this precise moment!

 

Jeez Louise!!!

 

Edit: seriously? I suspect it has more to do with the fact that I only associate with nerds. I really don't think it's a male/female gay/straight thing.

 

I'll leave the error in my post so yours doesn't sound weird

 

 

My love, if you tell my 12 year old youre a "Truvada whore" I'll be pissed off because I don't want to be discussing your HIV status every 20 minutes till he moves out. Kids assume if you tell them something it's because it's important to their lives.

 

LOL.....

 

I'd invite you to come spend a week down here but I've calmed down too much these days and you'd probably be bored! I was friendly with lesbian parents way before a gay couple I was friends with adopted a little boy from Russia. The boy is still young and straight as far as i know so the similarities toh CJ are probably not close. The example I quoted of Brad and his son are closer cause Ryan was 17 when I first met him. The kid was shy at first but the second summer he came to stay with his dad he just fit right in whenever he joined us for motorcycle rides, if we got too descriptive in our conversation he would just start talking about eating out his girlfriend trying to gross us out. That guy is way beyond cool and he was a trip when he rode behind his dad during the Gay Pride parade.A couple of girls found out he was straight and he was VERY popular!

 

I will admit I created the conversation with Dragon and King specifically to provide me a platform to discuss PrEP. It is controversial and has both proponents and opponents within the gay community. CJ being gay and sexually capable made him a good subject to discuss the issue with. My own stand for or against it is irrelevant, the ability to inform was paramount in my mind. Knowledge is a good thing. I don't want to know if your kid has gone through puberty or not or what his sexual orientation is. But at some point I'd hope you'd discuss PrEP with him. Gay men are still more likely to become infected with HIV but the virus is an equal opportunity fucker. If we can provide young men and women one more weapon to fight then I think we should. They may not avail themselves of it but they should be aware of its existence.

[Carlos Hazday]

Oh, and I'm a nerd! I'm a CPA!

 

All the primary characters introduced in Summer so far are HIV negative! Just thought I'd share that bit now. It won't always be the case!

[Irritable1]

I'm trying to keep an open mind on PrEP. Still waiting for the public health implications to shake out.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

I have known a lot of gay men over the years, no dads, but a couple who were uncles and these guys would have gone off the deep end if their friends talked to their nephews in a sexually explicit manner. As Irri said, you wouldn't find the body. The parents of the kids weren't prudes and the guys were your typical, late 20s, early 30s gay men in a group of mostly single gay men. They had fun, they partied, conversations were lewd and crude. None of that was permitted around their nephews (who I believe were 12 when I knew them). The boys knew the uncles were together and were gay, they met a lot of the gay friends while spending time with their uncles. It has nothing to do with gay or straight parents, girls or boys. It's what you are comfortable exposing a child to.

 

We should also remember that just because kids see more on the Internet now does not mean we have to throw them into the deep end of the pool just because they have heard about it before. It is our job as adults to guide them, answers questions they may ask with openness and honesty and send them into the world as educated young people and hope they learned something that they take with them as adults. I don't really see any reason why people would want a 15 year old to know they invite other men into their beds. Unless it's Brett and Cesar and CJ might stumble on someone coming out of their room in the morning then it's none of his business, just like it's none of my business who my swinger friend brings to her bed. I still have no clue why she felt the need to tell me.

 

That being said, I am not criticizing the Brett and Cesar, I am saying it's not as simple as "it's all men so it's different".

[Kitt]

There is also a world of difference in the maturity level between a 12 yr old and a 15 yr old in general and then the 15 could be mature beyond his years - or could be on a par with the 12 yr old.  Everything would have to be taken into consideration when deciding just how open to be with the young man.

[Bucket1]

It doesn't make you the same as Rich or the same as anyone else. My point is that what you consider inappropriate behavior in front of your children is based on your own beliefs and approach to parenting. Others may see things different. You're neither right nor wrong in your approach in the absolute. If it works for you and your family then it's right for you but why should you then assume it should also work for every other parent.

 

Funny thing is I never thought the interaction with those guys would lead to this conversation, it was actually meant to show a bunch of older men banding together to provide support for a kid who had been thrown away by his 'loving' mother and stepfather.

 

 

While not wanting to promote stereotypes about the land founded by puritans versus the land founded by convicts but it wasn't the sexual talk that bothered me at all.

 

If you want to talk about inappropriate comments, I would be pointing towards Doc's comments about "returning the kid" that has just been subjected to the ultimate rejection. CJ has just been told by the people that were raising him that he is no good and kicked him out of home. Doc's off the cuff comment only reenforces that CJ is not wanted and worthless (joking or not). Papa Brett comes to the rescue (good man) but that would have to sting a bit more than some sexual banter from old guys that obviously don't know whats available on the net.

I forgot to say, regardless of our various concerns, it's great to wake up to 28 comments on the forum - fantastic breakfast reading.

[LitLover]

There is also a world of difference in the maturity level between a 12 yr old and a 15 yr old in general and then the 15 could be mature beyond his years - or could be on a par with the 12 yr old.  Everything would have to be taken into consideration when deciding just how open to be with the young man.

That's very true. Like I said, it's what you feel comfortable exposing a child too...that child's age and maturity level is part of that. I just thought that Carlos' assertion that because they were all gay men made it different somehow was far too simplistic.

 

My kids are 20 and 18 right now and it's still not their business who my friend invites to her bed. I never went out of my way to tell them and when my daughter did ask a few years back (small town and gossip striking) I was honest about what I knew, without betraying any trusts. I think she asked my friend more later, but my friend never felt the need to tell the children in her whole circle of friends about her personal life. As far as I know, her husband doesn't either.

[Bucket1]

And fictional they may be - but I have had first hand experience with parents like Lourdes and Rich. It damn near got me arrested! 

 

 

You showed some restraint?  I may regret this, but are you getting old mellow? 

 

In all seriousness, I just don't get parents who throw their kids out because they are gay - I actually have more sympathy for the ones that send their kids to "straight camp". They are totally misguided but at least they are trying to do what they think will help the kid.

[LitLover]

While not wanting to promote stereotypes about the land founded by puritans versus the land founded by convicts but it wasn't the sexual talk that bothered me at all.

 

If you want to talk about inappropriate comments, I would be pointing towards Doc's comments about "returning the kid" that has just been subjected to the ultimate rejection. CJ has just been told by the people that were raising him that he is no good and kicked him out of home. Doc's off the cuff comment only reenforces that CJ is not wanted and worthless (joking or not). Papa Brett comes to the rescue (good man) but that would have to sting a bit more than some sexual banter from old guys that obviously don't know whats available on the net.I forgot to say, regardless of our various concerns, it's great to wake up to 28 comments on the forum - fantastic breakfast reading.

I missed that comment, and went back to re-read that section and you're right, CJ could have easily taken that badly, given the circumstances. Luckily he didn't, but it was pretty insensitive.

[Carlos Hazday]

LL, you're focusing on my comment about it being a group of men and disregarding all the others. All of them being gay, all of them being men, the events taking place in Washington and not in Podunk, the age and sophistication of the individuals and CJ's maturity are all factors which affect what is said, when and how.

 

I'd like to share a little something about how this story has been developed. A lot of this most people don't realize and my editor will vouch for me providing reasons behind some details when he has questioned them and I've insisted on retaining them. I've taken pains to paint CJ as appearing older than his age and being more mature than others his age. I've repeatedly shown Cesar and Brett reinforcing how happy they are with him being in DC and about how much they're willing to trust his judgement. Until he fucks up, and he will. I just finished introducing the main characters and it's a large cast to work with, but I'm trying very hard to portray each one as an individual different from the others. It'll take time for that to be revealed but hell, that's the whole idea of writing something longer than my 26 word prompt responses. Personalities will be revealed slowly.

 

Summer is not meant to be a silly love story, the world needs those but Summer is not one of them (sorry Sir Paul!) I would like to create an entertaining story that's a bit more realistic than the usual boy meets boy, boy is ready to walk down the altar 15 minutes later. I would like the opportunity to raise issues I think are important and hopefully open a conversation (ie PrEP) I also refuse to have angst filled characters that are unable to make a decision or take action without ruminating about it ad nauseam.Many of these characters share traits with many men I've met and interacted with over the past 40 years.

 

Soooooo, I have no problem if you disagree with me, I actually welcome it. But I will give honest answers and I will think about those responses carefully. I hope you all do the same.

[Timothy M.]

I noticed one thing in the very start of the chapter: it was mentioned how the guys had been careful about what they said the previous summer when CJ was visiting. Apparently, he was still a kid then, end even if he did know about them (and himself) being gay, he wasn't ready to know anything more.

The interesting this is, CJ actually says TMI a couple of times in previous chapters (even if he is teasing), when César and Brett make jokes with sexual overtones. Stands to reason a kid is more grossed out about thinking of his parents having sex that by banter from their friends.

That being said, I think the repetition of the guys hitting on CJ was vaguely disturbing, but OK if it's the only time happening and brought on by their surprise at his new manly looks.

If they keep on doing it, I can see things sliding into something more serious. Particularly, since you've already hinted at CJ being physically attracted to these men. Not that I expect the story to go there at all, but the hints will distract attention from your main story line - as already evidenced by the discussion here.

 

Now to change the subject: was I the only one getting the idea that Chip is cheating on Doc?

[Carlos Hazday]

Doc's line about sending the kid back was very deliberate. Did y'all notice how quickly Brett jumped on that one? CJ didn't even have time to hear it or process it.

 

We'll see what happens with CJ and the sexual banter. Having played sports in school he can't be a stranger to the bawdy jokes and comments. However, he's finally able to relate to the conversation instead of the usual talk about pussy and tits I had to suffer through in the locker room as he probably had to also. The feeling of being accepted and becoming 'one of the guys' is one of the greatest ones a teenager can experience. Unless someone has gone through it, there's no possible way to relate. 

 

The male bonding which takes place amongst the jocks on and off the field, amongst brothers in a collegiate fraternity (I realize this is not something Euros can relate to, sorry Tim), amongst military men in the barracks or a bunch of bikers at a motorcycle rally is something I wish everyone could experience. And then there's the dance floor with a bunch of sweaty, half naked gay men....

 

Chip... that man seems to be working a lot of hours, doesn't he?