Are Adverbs Really That Bad?

[Rechan]

So I went through Steven King's "On Writing", and I've looked through a few other books, and it seems like authors are very down on the Adverb. They take it a bit too far, by going on about how adverbs should be rarely used.

 

Which I understand to an extent. "He ran quickly" is a waste of words; "He sprinted" is better. You select a powerful verb.

 

But this is at odds with many authors being down on using powerful verbs instead of "said". I've seen this pop up in multiple places as well; the emphasis is "always use 'said' instead of 'growled' or 'taunted' or 'chirped' as a word for speech'. That the reader should be able to make inferences from the dialogue of how it's said.

 

Which ultimately limits what you can write.

 

Let's take something simple.

 

"You don't understand," John said.

 

That doesn't sound that interesting. We don't know how John said it and there are many ways he could have said it: sullenly, bitterly, desperately, exasperatedly. Each one changes the context of the dialogue. And without adverbs or powerful words the implication is that you have to do a lot of unnecessary heavy lifting just to let the reader know John's comment is bitter, or you're using adverbs/powerful language and being lazy/bad.

[Tipdin]

Perhaps we need a nation campaign to save the endangered adverb...?

 

Limiting how one is allowed to write is akin to limiting how one can say something. Oh wait, we do that! And we've seen what a mess THAT caused!

 

I ain't azackly in favor a no misguided adverbial extinction attempts.

 

Without variety, there is no spice.

[Nephylim]

Maybe I would get into less trouble if I peppered my speech with 'she said sarcastically' after everything I say It's amusing actually that this particular trait has been getting me into hot water all over the place over the last few days. Maybe as well as campainging for the maligned Adverb we should campaign to save sarcasm too.

[Graeme]

But this is at odds with many authors being down on using powerful verbs instead of "said". I've seen this pop up in multiple places as well; the emphasis is "always use 'said' instead of 'growled' or 'taunted' or 'chirped' as a word for speech'. That the reader should be able to make inferences from the dialogue of how it's said.

 

Which ultimately limits what you can write.

 

Let's take something simple.

 

"You don't understand," John said.

 

That doesn't sound that interesting. We don't know how John said it and there are many ways he could have said it: sullenly, bitterly, desperately, exasperatedly. Each one changes the context of the dialogue. And without adverbs or powerful words the implication is that you have to do a lot of unnecessary heavy lifting just to let the reader know John's comment is bitter, or you're using adverbs/powerful language and being lazy/bad.

 

You're on the right track, but you missed the last turn

 

The idea is to work towards getting of the 'said' part completely. All it's there for is to indicate who said it. If you want to indicate emotion that's not in the actual words, add narration:

 

"You don't understand." John clenched his fists and glared at his parents.

 

"You don't understand." John's shoulders slumped as he dropped his gaze to the floor.

 

No adverbs, and no 'said', but you can read (hopefully) the difference in how the two statements were made. The context makes it clear that John was the one who made the statement, so I didn't need to use a 'John said' phrase. Ideally, I'd use an exclamation point, rather than a period, in the first example dialogue, but I didn't to demonstrate how you can use narration to show the difference.

 

The example I read on when to use an adverb with speech was when the expression was contradictory to the words:

 

"I gave the bastard the best years of my life," she said proudly.

 

Adverbs are like spices. Use them, but use them carefully and judiciously. Don't use them as a crutch because you can't think of a better way to state something.

 

Just my opinion, of course

[Hamen Cheese]

while were at it lets save the much endangered capitalization and punctuations or separators like the commas apostrophes periods etc in our text messages (cellphone) i know its declining at least where i am haha i think it rather makes things confusing even if we know what the person is saying right?

[Rechan]

No adverbs, and no 'said', but you can read (hopefully) the difference in how the two statements were made. The context makes it clear that John was the one who made the statement, so I didn't need to use a 'John said' phrase. Ideally, I'd use an exclamation point, rather than a period, in the first example dialogue, but I didn't to demonstrate how you can use narration to show the difference.

Well, as I said before the Authors Who Declare How It Is are saying that you should only use said.

 

And while I get your point, I also can't think of any narrative for bitter.

 

In the situation I find myself, there's not an easy way to describe things too. One character for instance is cooking, and facing away from the other character. Since it's from the cooking character's perspective, there's no way to describe the body language of the other character. Thus, describing the way they sound is really the only way to get things across. But that apparently isn't appropriate.

[Graeme]

Well, as I said before the Authors Who Declare How It Is are saying that you should only use said.

 

And while I get your point, I also can't think of any narrative for bitter.

 

"You don't understand." John's bitter tone was a reflection of the expression of anger on his face.

 

A bit of a cop out in that I explicitly stated what his tone was, rather than "John said bitterly", but doing this way meant I could easily add more than just his tone.

 

Personally, I try to avoid using speech tags as much as I can. I'm not firm on only using 'said', though, because 'whispered', 'murmured', 'muttered', 'yelled' and 'shouted' all indicate volume, which is hard to show in writing. I'll use them when appropriate, if I don't believe it's clear in context. But for tone, I try to either pick my words, similarly to how 'sprinted' is better than 'ran quickly', or I use narrative to show how the character feels. After all, if John is bitter, most of the time it will be apparent in more than just his tone. It'll be in his facial expression, or his posture, or in his actions.

 

As people, we use more than just one sense to learn what other people are feeling. We can hear what they say, see how they look, sometimes even feel (eg. by being kissed or hit). Writing to show more than one or two senses is challenging, but the result is often very rewarding.

[Graeme]

In the situation I find myself, there's not an easy way to describe things too. One character for instance is cooking, and facing away from the other character. Since it's from the cooking character's perspective, there's no way to describe the body language of the other character. Thus, describing the way they sound is really the only way to get things across. But that apparently isn't appropriate.

 

Sorry, I missed this paragraph.

 

If you have a special situation where tone is the only thing way to convey information, then go ahead. These are guidelines, not rules or straitjackets. The recommendations I've read all say to get rid of your adverbs, and once you can do that, then re-introduce them cautiously. I've never seen anything credible that says to never use adverbs. The problem is with people overusing them It's really easy to do and the principle is that this is a bad habit.

 

To break a bad habit, the first thing is to stop. Once you've shown you can stop, you can then re-introduce that habit if you want to, but keep it under control. Think drinking, gambling, etc. They are not necessarily bad in their own right, but overdoing them can be, and can be habit forming. Breaking the habit of overindulging usually requires stopping completely for a time, before you start up again, but in moderation.

[JamesSavik]

This will end badly.

[rec]

And promptly?

[Graeme]

This will end badly.

 

And promptly?

 

Why do I get the impression that serious writers and editors are reading this thread and laughing? :wacko: :mace:

[Jack Frost]

Your impression is well-founded.

[Hylas]

When (and How) To Break the Rules by Ann Marble

 

I found this helpful. This is her take on adverbs and adjectives:

 

 

Always be wary of writing advice that starts out with "Don't" or "Never." These are often overgeneralizations. It's true that the best words are active verbs and concrete nouns. It's also true that adjectives and adverbs often do weaken the narrative. But that doesn't mean you should never, ever use adjectives and adverbs. Why should you follow a rule that will prevent you from using some of the tools in your tool chest? Nouns and verbs aren't the only tools -- adjectives and adverbs have their places, too. Think of the English language as a desktop. The things you use most often -- such as pens and pencils -- are nearby. The figures of speech you use less often might be the stapler, staple remover, and tape dispenser. If you've ever run out of tape in the middle of a project, you know how it feels to be restricted from using adjectives and adverbs. From time to time, you need to modify a noun with an adjective. And heresy of heresies, you may even have to use an adverb.

 

When you do use adjectives and adverbs, be sure to use them sparingly and to know when to take them out. Do be especially (whoops, there's another adverb) careful of adverbs. Is that adverb really telling the reader something they don't already know or can't figure out from the context? If not, considering cutting it out. Could a stronger verb do the job just as well? If so, try the verb instead.

 

 

Her main advice mirrors what Graeme said:

 

Now this is one rule I actually agree with. Don't get me wrong -- I don't believe in breaking the writing rules "just because." I don't even believe in breaking them most of the time. But keep in mind that most of the rules of writing are guidelines. Not edicts carved in stone. One of the most important aspects of learning to become a better writer is learning when to stomp all over those guidelines and do what you know is best for your story.

Personally I don't care much. XD If what I wrote sounds alright to me, I don't change it just because it doesn't happen to fit the 'standard' set of rules on fiction writing. We all have different styles of writing and to fastidiously stick to a rule of 'nevers' would make us a bunch of clones.

 

 

 

[Hamen Cheese]

I must say that after reading this post, I've actually had to go back to the unreleased chapters of my story to check if I used adverbs a lot. Haha. I've become more conscious off it. Now, I'm getting nervous with my writing...

 

Perhaps it's time I make Merriam-Webster Online (www.m-w.com) my new home page and pick up their words of the day to expand my vocabulary.

 

Like today's word of the day:

 

struthious - of or relating to the ostriches and related birds

 

Struthious. Must find a way to insert that in my story. Struthious. Sounds exotic.

[John Doe]

Honestly in my writing classes that's what all my professors say too, with the exception of one (he thinks if it's written well it'll pass... the question is... is it good/well?) anyway... I'm torn on what to do at times. I fretted and worried and honestly it has cost me my writing skills cause I'm constantly worrying about what I write. I finally figured to let it go and let me finish my work. I find that it's easier to write it out and then print it out and edit it over with a pencil rewriting sentences. And when I do edits, it's line editing. I edit every sentence. Reword each and sometimes even omit them or add. So don't fret too much on it. Write like you will and when you edit the "final" wording will come to you.

[JamesSavik]

The occasional adverb isn't going to kill you.

 

The real problem with adverbs arise when they bloat your prose and slow down the reader like a muddy dirt road.

 

The hazard is that if you slow him down too much he'll get stuck in the mud.

[gardentuber]

The occasional adverb isn't going to kill you.

 

The real problem with adverbs arise when they bloat your prose and slow down the reader like a muddy dirt road.

 

The hazard is that if you slow him down too much he'll get stuck in the mud.

 

It's like my swim coach taught...

 

Learn new techniques

Do some practice laps

Forget about them

Just swim your laps

Over time, the new techniques will become integrated and you won't have to think about them any longer and your stroke will be the better.

 

Just remember, not everything you write needs to be shared/published. Lots of your/my writing should never be shared!!!

[Rechan]

"You don't understand." John's bitter tone was a reflection of the expression of anger on his face.

Isn't that very "Telly", not showy?

 

But I get what you're saying. What folks have been saying. Also the "Stop, then go back". All very useful, people!

 

Although I didn't realize that adjectives were as bad as adverbs! I would think adjectives would be ok!

 

For instance, "John picked up the dirty book and opened it to the bent page." Now you could go into detail about how the book was dirty and how the page was bent, but honestly, if that's not the focus of the paragraph or whatnot, an adjective is more useful to paint the picture than devoting descriptive attention to something that you don't want to give too much attention to.

 

"You don't understand." John's bitter tone was a reflection of the expression of anger on his face.

Isn't that very "Telly", not showy?

 

But I get what you're saying. What folks have been saying. Also the "Stop, then go back". All very useful, people!

 

Although I didn't realize that adjectives were as bad as adverbs! I would think adjectives would be ok!

 

For instance, "John picked up the dirty book and opened it to the bent page." Now you could go into detail about how the book was dirty and how the page was bent, but honestly, if that's not the focus of the paragraph or whatnot, an adjective is more useful to paint the picture than devoting descriptive attention to something that you don't want to give too much attention to.

[Hylas]

The occasional adverb isn't going to kill you.

 

The real problem with adverbs arise when they bloat your prose and slow down the reader like a muddy dirt road.

 

The hazard is that if you slow him down too much he'll get stuck in the mud.

 

Still, aren't there times when you actually want to slow down the narrative? Kinda like melancholy scenes in movies for example, or bullet time, heh.

[John Doe]

You're on the right track, but you missed the last turn

 

The idea is to work towards getting of the 'said' part completely. All it's there for is to indicate who said it. If you want to indicate emotion that's not in the actual words, add narration:

 

"You don't understand." John clenched his fists and glared at his parents.

 

"You don't understand." John's shoulders slumped as he dropped his gaze to the floor.

 

No adverbs, and no 'said', but you can read (hopefully) the difference in how the two statements were made. The context makes it clear that John was the one who made the statement, so I didn't need to use a 'John said' phrase. Ideally, I'd use an exclamation point, rather than a period, in the first example dialogue, but I didn't to demonstrate how you can use narration to show the difference.

 

The example I read on when to use an adverb with speech was when the expression was contradictory to the words:

 

"I gave the bastard the best years of my life," she said proudly.

 

Adverbs are like spices. Use them, but use them carefully and judiciously. Don't use them as a crutch because you can't think of a better way to state something.

 

Just my opinion, of course

 

 

It's not a weird or off kilter opinion either. That's the point all those authors are making. Using desciptors to quantify the emotion is a poor writer's way of writing. A stong verb does work better than adverbs. Bascially Graeme wrote what I was going to write.

 

It's like writing:

 

The boy was happy that he got to eat the cake.

 

Compare to:

 

The boy shoveled handful after handful of cake into his mouth. When he wasn't chewing, his frosted lips were stretched into a smile.

 

The second is better. We get to see the boy eat his cake and be happy instead of just being told. Same logic for adverbs and strong verbs. He ran quickly doesn't sound as good as he sprinted. Here's the reason why. "He sprinted" is shorter thus making the urgency of the sentence stronger. "He ran quickly" has one too many syllables and slows the urgency of running down.

 

Kinda like this example.

 

"Stop right there," he panted.

 

Compare to:

 

"Stop. Right. There," he said, hunched over his knees.

 

The feelings of the two are different. The first is too smooth. Even with the "panted" marker it doesn't feel that way. The second even though without the pant marker the periods and one word sentence evoke the pants (or should).

[Adam Phillips]

John's post makes the point that Stephen King was seeking to make regarding adverbs in On Writing: Far too often, writers use adverbs to prop up gutless verbs. King says as much in his passage on adverbs.

 

I've noticed it myself in my writing from time to time; it's so easy to reach for an adverb when your verb isn't pulling its weight.

 

Look through any Stephen King story out there. You'll see plenty of adverbs. His warning was intended to caution writers not to depend on adverbs to fix colorless sentences.

[Greedya]

I'd like to point out that there are trade-offs in doing (and not doing) almost anything. The concerns about overusing adverbs are a bit misplaced, methinks.

 

Adverbs are merely the means to the end. You can narrate in whatever way that goes well with the flow, the pacing, the emotions, the imagery, etc.

 

I like what John Doe said and I wanna add that I've written some stories that are very verbose. I use a lot of something that is heavier than adverbs: metaphors. But they are justified because those stories take a combined approach of expressionism and romanticism, and I focus mainly on the emotions inflicted on the readers, of course at the cost of pacing.

 

Snippet from one of my stories (to be posted on this website soon - I'm re-editing it):

When pure, golden candlelight springs to sprightliness, it jazz-danceseuphorically, radiating her smiles of illumination like a glowing aura of warm tendernessfrom a seraphic goddess. Effused in parallel with the sight of light is aerodynamicsof aromatics. A cherubic scent of crisp citrus sweeps the ambiance with vigorthat is evocative of the first day of spring. The gleeful glitter ofatmospheric glamorization fills my vision, my lungs, and my heart in trichotomy...

 

 

Compared to:

An aromatic candle is lit, and romance fills the air.

 

I can't say which one is better as a rule. It depends on the context. The first aims to build up the emotions, provoke the imageries and dances with beautiful writing. The second gets to the point, implying that the scene isn't supposed to be distracted from other components in the story.

 

PS: I'm a new here, and I think this community is really great.

[LJH]

The adverb kills. Period. No excuses. If i come across an authors work where he couldnt be bothered about the general sanity of his reader, i close the piece and move on. There are no hard and fast rules to writing, but if one wants to write, at least show a little interest in how its done. Simply put, there are words that editors do not like, useless words that dont enhance the story. Ive posted that list into the editors forum here and even tho i say there are no hard hard and fast rules, im not interested in reading stories where writers simply use words that are not needed. You can call me selfish, biased, whatever, i dont have the time to read adverbs and adjectives. Writers who use them have no clue and that is my opinion. Shout me down if you will but i refuse to read such stuff. My opinion only. Remember, every writer needs to use adverbs and adjectives at times i agree. The lazy writer uses these in every sentence. Thats the guy who will never be published.

[Tara00]

I liked what was posted in this topic so far. Greedya, your post opened my eyes to when colourful usage of words work in descriptions and when not. That particular example was beautiful.

[myself_i_must_remake]

==