Red Running Shoes by Aditus

[Irritable1]

 

 

And he never said he was sorry. Right?”

 

I guess the question is how comfortable you are using near-strangers as telephones for your most intimate conversations  Jonah and his friends appear to feel that this is the way to get things done. I'd rather just end a relationship than have to give up so much privacy.

 

I thought of something else... the close-up of Jonah has him holding Ren's ring... is it possible that Ren has known since Milan, unhappy though he is, that Jonah will come back to him, and showed up in Sicily just to hurry him along? That suggests a really Ren-like level of confidence...

 

Edit: Jinx!

Edited January 25, 2015 by Irritable1

[Timothy M.]

But he could have said to Michael he was sorry for hurting Jonah and that he wanted to see him to apologize in person.

now I'll have to go back and check what Michael said when he told the story.

[Timothy M.]

I guess the question is how comfortable you are using near-strangers as telephones for your most intimate conversations  Jonah and his friends appear to feel that this is the way to get things done.

 

No they don't ! Michael and Chris waited until they came to Sicily to tell Jonah about the wedding scene and Michael's subsequent talk with Ren. so they must be great believers in face-to-face confrontations.

 

Ren is the one who used Chris as carrier of the death stab to his relationship with Jonah. If he can do that why not use Michael as an easy way to convey his regrets ?

Edited January 25, 2015 by Timothy M.

[LitLover]

But he could have said to Michael he was sorry for hurting Jonah and that he wanted to see him to apologize in person.

now I'll have to go back and check what Michael said when he told the story.

Seriously, these are not grade school girls. Why would Ren be wrong to want to apologize face to face? He can't seem to win for losing.

 

Edit: and he admitted he was a fool and that he knew he hurt Jonah and Ren is MISERABLE. Give the guy a break for thinking you should say sorry to the one you hurt and not their friends.

Edited January 25, 2015 by LitLover

[Irritable1]

But he could have said to Michael he was sorry for hurting Jonah and that he wanted to see him to apologize in person.

now I'll have to go back and check what Michael said when he told the story.

 

He was drunk enough to be muttering to himself, smashing a bottle, and laughing hysterically. 

[Timothy M.]

And when he told the whole story to Michael, he suddenly seemed stone cold sober.

[Irritable1]

No they don't ! Michael and Chris waited until they came to Sicily to tell Jonah about the wedding scene and Michael's subsequent talk with Ren. so they must be great believers in face-to-face confrontations.

 

Ren is the one who used Chris as carrier of the death stab to his relationship with Jonah. If he can do that why not use Michael as an easy way to convey his regrets ?

 

I honestly don't know why we're so fixated on the apology all of a sudden. If it was really a death stab then it was a death stab, no apology would make a difference. He didn't ask Michael to carry a message because it was clear he was the evil doer in everyone's eyes and Michael might refuse. Not to mention he was reeling drunk.  He said he loved Jonah. Michael hung around two weeks before he relayed that much. Now Ren's at fault for not having added an apology he didn't know would be conveyed?

 

Edit: but in any case--were I in his place, I would not do so. Having angry words repeated once doesn't mean you need to rely on a different source to repeat an apology.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

No they don't ! Michael and Chris waited until they came to Sicily to tell Jonah about the wedding scene and Michael's subsequent talk with Ren. so they must be great believers in face-to-face confrontations.

 

Ren is the one who used Chris as carrier of the death stab to his relationship with Jonah. If he can do that why not use Michael as an easy way to convey his regrets ?

No Jonah used Chris as his mouthpiece. Ren reacted out of hurt that Jonah still didn't trust him at all. So he is to be punished forever because he can be hurt too? He said something to stupid to Chris out of hurt and it was childish, yea, but he's a bad guy because he might want to apologize face to face like an adult? Edited January 25, 2015 by LitLover

[LitLover]

I honestly don't know why we're so fixated on the apology all of a sudden. If it was really a death stab then it was a death stab, no apology would make a difference. He didn't ask Michael to carry a message because it was clear he was the evil doer in everyone's eyes and Michael might refuse. Not to mention he was reeling drunk.  He said he loved Jonah. Michael hung around two weeks before he relayed that much. Now Ren's at fault for not having added an apology he didn't know would be conveyed?

 

Edit: but in any case--were I in his place, I would not do so. Having angry words repeated once doesn't mean you need to rely on a different source to repeat an apology.

Exactly!

 

Can we set up a meeting between Ren and Kat VonD? That tattoo could probably be turned into a kick @ss dragon.

[Irritable1]

Exactly!

 

Can we set up a meeting between Ren and Kat VonD? That tattoo could probably be turned into a kick @ss dragon.

 

Let's set up a meeting between Ren and a mature Indian lady with a couple of kids 

[Timothy M.]

Ren doesn't have to apologize at all. But then Jonah doesn't have to apologize for running away - or for not trusting Ren.

 

And you're saying Jonah having a nervous breakdown and more or less being unable to function is no excuse for not meeting Ren in the cafe? He should just have manned up and gone to meet Ren? What if Jonah had been in an accident, been in hospital with a broken leg or something? Would it still be inexcusable to send Chris to find out the truth?

 

Did Chris call Ren and promise him Jonah would met him in the cafe? I don't think so. Why did Ren even agree to meet Chris if he would only be satisfied to see Jonah? Did he think Jonah would suddenly change his mind and appear? Did he even give Chris a chance to explain anything ?

 

See answers below - direct quotes from chapter 11

Edited January 25, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Irritable1]

 

Did Chris call Ren and promise him Jonah would met him in the cafe? I don't think so. Why did Ren even agree to meet Chris if he would only be satisfied to see Jonah? Did he think Jonah would suddenly change his mind and appear? Did he even give Chris a chance to explain anything ?

 

We don't know because it was Chris who went, and Chris himself said that he had to dash out of there before he did something he regretted. The whole story is like the Ballad of Chris, Michael and Eric. 

 

 

 

And you're saying Jonah having a nervous breakdown and more or less being unable to function is no excuse for not meeting Ren in the cafe?

 

Has Jonah been having a nervous breakdown the whole last three months? He's still got Ren's number programmed into his phone. He just hasn't dialled it. Because.... ?

[LitLover]

Ren doesn't have to apologize at all. But then Jonah doesn't have to apologize for running away - or for not trusting Ren.

 

And you're saying Jonah having a nervous breakdown and more or less being unable to function is no excuse for not meeting Ren in the cafe? He should just have manned up and gone to meet Ren? What if Jonah had been in an accident, been in hospita with a broken leg or something? Would it still be inexcusable to send Chris to find out the truth?

 

Did Chris call Ren and promise him Jonah would met him in the cafe? I don't think so. Why did Ren even agree to meet Chris if he would only be satisfied to see Jonah? Did he think Jonah would suddenly change his mind and appear? Did he even give Chris a chance to explain anything ?

Did Chris give Ren a chance to say anything before he lit into him and putting him right on the defensive? Likely not. I'm sure he didn't come in all calm and collected. I know if my husbands friend came to me flipping out for hurting him and combined with my husband not talking to me himself I would be hurt, defensive and angry and might even lash out. I'm human. I guess Jonah would have run from me too. Edited January 25, 2015 by LitLover

[Timothy M.]

Has Jonah been having a nervous breakdown the whole last three months? He's still got Ren's number programmed into his phone. He just hasn't dialled it. Because.... ?

 

Because Ren said those thing in the cafe - after that it was over.

[Irritable1]

Can we let go of the apology slapfest  for a second? What about my idea that Ren knows Jonah is coming back because of his inner source of Ren-ness?

[Timothy M.]

"That's okay. I'll meet him at Bell's. I don’t think he would cause a scene in the middle of a café. At least not a big one… And I really want to know what he has to say.” Chris got up from the sofa. “I’ll call him from the kitchen.

 

“When Ren saw you weren’t with me, he leaned back in his chair and sneered that he already reckoned you wouldn't have the guts to confront him. That you sent me, because you probably already did a runner. I really tried to stay calm, Jonah. I asked him how long had this been going on between him and Eric. He only grinned and said that it never really stopped. I asked him how they could do this to you. If it was a stupid bet or something. All he said was 'Because we could.’ I had to get out of there, Jonah. As fast as possible, otherwise…"

 

Unless you want to say Chris is lying...

[Irritable1]

 

 

“When Ren saw you weren’t with me, he leaned back in his chair and sneered that he already reckoned you wouldn't have the guts to confront him. 

 

So Chris did trick him? You've just undercut your own point!!

 

I had even forgotten that!

Edited January 25, 2015 by Irritable1

[Timothy M.]

Did Chris give Ren a chance to say anything before he lit into him and putting him right on the defensive? Likely not.

 

Did Ren give Chris a chance ?

Nope - see quote above.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Timothy M.

[LitLover]

Can we let go of the apology slapfest  for a second? What about my idea that Ren knows Jonah is coming back because of his inner source of Ren-ness?

I refuse to entertain hope only to have it dashed. I'm holding out now for a dragon tattoo

[Irritable1]

I refuse to entertain hope only to have it dashed. I'm holding out now for a dragon tattoo

 

Fair enough. I am scanning the horizon for a tall half-Asian man. On the bright side, I'm on the West coast, so they're actually pretty common, though not as tall as Ren... also I may have some trouble with Mr. Irri. I need to go pick up my meds, TTYL fellow RRs!

[Timothy M.]

So Chris did trick him? You've just undercut your own point!!

 

I had even forgotten that!

 

I don't know if Chris tricked him. I've always believed in Chris as a true friend to Jonah. And the story Ren told Michael certainly supports the tale Chris told. Are you now saying Michael is lying too ?

 

It's still not Jonah's fault...

[Irritable1]

Did Chris call Ren and promise him Jonah would met him in the cafe? I don't think so. 

 

Why don't you think so?

 

 

"That's okay. I'll meet him at Bell's. I don’t think he would cause a scene in the middle of a café. At least not a big one… And I really want to know what he has to say.” Chris got up from the sofa. “I’ll call him from the kitchen

 

We have no idea what Chris said or what Ren thought.

 

We know how Ren reacted: with disappointment and anger.

 

 

It's still not Jonah's fault...

 

I think this is a very personal thing. I would never ever leave someone I cared for to be "handled" and managed this way. The he said/she said/he said/then he said thing makes me run for the hills. So I do think it is Jonah's fault. Edit: maybe more social people feel differently. I like dealing 1:1.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

"That's okay. I'll meet him at Bell's. I don’t think he would cause a scene in the middle of a café. At least not a big one… And I really want to know what he has to say.” Chris got up from the sofa. “I’ll call him from the kitchen.

 

“When Ren saw you weren’t with me, he leaned back in his chair and sneered that he already reckoned you wouldn't have the guts to confront him. That you sent me, because you probably already did a runner. I really tried to stay calm, Jonah. I asked him how long had this been going on between him and Eric. He only grinned and said that it never really stopped. I asked him how they could do this to you. If it was a stupid bet or something. All he said was 'Because we could.’ I had to get out of there, Jonah. As fast as possible, otherwise…"

 

Unless you want to say Chris is lying...

  

Did Ren give Chris a chance ?

Nope

So you are honestly telling me that Chris went to the cafe calm, cool and collected and hasn't exaggerated anything that happened? Puh-lease. That boy is a drama queen!! Look at how he was with Sandro when he first met him and he knows Jonah likes Sandro. He went into that cafe like a guy on a mission and probably lit into Ren almost immediately. Do I think Ren said something snarky about Jonah not being there? Yea I do. Because he thought Jonah would come and he was hurt that he didn't. I would have probably said something too. And part of wha he said was likely said to hurt Chris for interfering and may have been misconstrued. Who knows. Only Chris and Ren know and chris would never admit it and no one has asked Ren.

[Timothy M.]

If it makes you happy to think Chris is to blame, I have no more comments. I prefer it to everything being Jonah's fault.

 

PS - Michael asked Ren at the wedding. Is he lying too ?

 

 

"Why did he say those awful things, Michael? He knew it would hurt me. Making me think the whole time he betrayed me, that he even planned it…that’s just cruel. How could he do that?"

"I asked him the very same thing and he said he'd been so furious that you still couldn’t trust him, that you’d think he would do that to you, he lashed out saying the one thing that he knew would hurt you the most. Thinking about it now, he actually never tried to gloss things over, but admitted freely that he knew with doing this he would fuck up anything that might have been left. His words.”

 

Not ONE word about being furious because Chris attacked him and didn't believe him or give him at chance to explain. The fact Jonah didn't trust him enough to met him was the trigger. Even when he'd already been told Jonah had had a mental breakdown, a real fucking mental breakdown!

Edited January 25, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Irritable1]

If it makes you happy to think Chris is to blame, I have no more comments. I prefer it to everything being Jonah's fault.

 

HAHA IT'S BOTH