Red Running Shoes by Aditus

[LitLover]

If it makes you happy to think Chris is to blame, I have no more comments. I prefer it to everything being Jonah's fault.

 

PS - Michael asked Ren at the wedding. Is he lying too ?

Jonah is still the one who lets someone do the talking for him and ran instead of talking to Ren himself. You just don't do that in a mature relationship.

 

FYI Ren is not a monster either, yet he is paying the biggest price for being human.

[LitLover]

And who moves on to someone else within weeks of running from a year long relationship while he is not over the his ex? he knew Sandro really liked him. Any angst and tears that Sandro is suffering right now is on Jonah. It was mere weeks for goodness sake! I think Sandro was an idiot for going after him so soon but Jonah did swear he wasn't on the rebound. (Total lie)

[Irritable1]

And who moves on to someone else within weeks of running from a year long relationship while he is not over the his ex? he knew Sandro really liked him. Any angst and tears that Sandro is suffering right now is on Jonah. It was mere weeks for goodness sake! I think Sandro was an idiot for going after him so soon but Jonah did swear he wasn't on the rebound. (Total lie)

 

LOL. We're like a really angry Greek chorus. Edit: What would we be in the Jonah family tree? Angry female older cousins? I could go for that.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Irritable1

[Timothy M.]

I give up 

Ren is blameless and Jonah should go jump off a cliff and Sandro start dating Daniele.

[Irritable1]

I give up 

Ren is blameless and Jonah should go jump off a cliff and Sandro start dating Daniele.

 

No, no. Sandro + Jonah.

Ren + Daniele.

 

Edit: In fact! Have they already met?

Edited January 25, 2015 by Irritable1

[LitLover]

I give up 

Ren is blameless and Jonah should go jump off a cliff and Sandro start dating Daniele.

Didn't say Ren was blameless, but he is not the only one to blame.

 

And not a cliff...think Tibet and self-reflection

[LitLover]

No, no. Sandro + Jonah.

Ren + Daniele.

 

Edit: In fact! Have they already met?

Nah, not Daniele. I'm sure he could meet someone else who isn't tied in some way to Jonah.

[LitLover]

I give up

Ren is blameless and Jonah should go jump off a cliff and Sandro start dating Daniele.

And Tim, I don't hate Jonah and want him dead. I just don't particularly like him, Chris, Michael and Rick right now. He acted immature, did what he knew was wrong and everyone is still always tripping over themselves to make excuses for his past bad behaviour and rushing to assure him that he would never do those things with Sandro. They tell him "oh you would never do that because...." How do they know that? He's never proven to be an adult about anything up to this point. Matteo is right, I think Jonah acts like a martyr and seems to enjoy that role. On the flip side Ren loved Jonah for a year, and made a stupid mistake which apparently negated that year of love and he apparently should be drawn and quartered and deserves those months of suffering waiting for Jonah to be good enough to come and talk to him. Apparently in this whole train wreck Ren is the @sshole. Why? I just want Ren to have his own happy ending. And a dragon tattoo Edited January 25, 2015 by LitLover

[Timothy M.]

And you're saying Jonah having a nervous breakdown and more or less being unable to function is no excuse for not meeting Ren in the cafe? He should just have manned up and gone to meet Ren?

 

nobody has given me an answer to this yet.

[LitLover]

nobody has given me an answer to this yet.

He wasn't having nervous breakdown the entire time. Talk before taking off to Italy, that's all. Why is Jonah's pain and weakness (fragile, lack of trust, running and sending people in his place to talk for him) more valid than Ren's pain and weakness (being more hurt than he lets on and lashing out)? They both got hurt yet Ren is the only one still suffering. Jonah on the other hand gets to choose whose heart is broken.

Edited January 25, 2015 by LitLover

[Headstall]

There are some things I don't understand. First...I know it's implied...but are Sandro and Jonah having sex. Adi?

Secondly, I thought Ren made those supposed remarks to Chris...not Michael...wtf...when did that change or am I stupid...

Thirdly...Why the hell would Michael take Jonah's braid??? That sounds like something you would want ONLY if you were in love with that person...am I wrong???

 

IF Jonah is having sex with Sandro...I would say that is impossible to come back from...and I find myself hating Jonah for going that far before finding out the truth....and Sandro, for moving in on someone that he knew was running from someone he loved. I also hate Jonah's cousin for pretty much setting this up....other than that, I am just fine, thank you very much

 

 

Edit: what was the conversation between Chris and Sandro...maybe Chris was moving in on Sandro like he did with Eric...you know...being such a good friend and all

Edited January 26, 2015 by Headstall

[Irritable1]

I'm pretty sure they're having sex... But that is an excellent point about Chris and Sandro!

[LitLover]

Yea I'm pretty sure they're having sex. And Gary, you're not the only one having trouble liking Jonah right now. I have also re-affirmed that I don't like love triangle stories, especially when it could have been prevented. It sounds like there are only about 3 more chapters to go? I'll keep reading but I'm just not sure I can like Jonah again in that time.

 

I've actually been researching dragon cover-up tattoos because I was bored. Lol.

[Headstall]

 

I've actually been researching dragon cover-up tattoos because I was bored. Lol.

Do we need to stage an intervention?   Adi...look at what you are doing to Lit !! I already broke Carlos....This has to stop! Is there a full moon tonight?

[LitLover]

 

Come on...that would be seriously hot.  Just move it where needed.  

Edited January 26, 2015 by LitLover

[Irritable1]

It's actually a young moon right now.

 

So look. Team. My Renraged few. What could Jonah do to appease our fury?

[Headstall]

 

Come on...that would be seriously hot.  Just move it where needed.  

Yes it is hot...and I like the tattoos too

[Headstall]

It's actually a young moon right now.

 

So look. Team. My Renraged few. What could Jonah do to appease our fury?

It may be too late.. for me...I guess anything is possible...okay...bottom line...Sandro went in with his eyes open...he saw with his own eyes how Jonah reacted when he saw Ren...If I was him I would walk away...but he probably won't...so if Jonah has the big balls to tell Sandro he wants only Ren and takes his share of the blame(which is most of it) and can convince Ren to try again...I could live with that....and for some reason, as an aside, I am getting a bad vibe from Michael now...wtf???

[LitLover]

It's actually a young moon right now.

 

So look. Team. My Renraged few. What could Jonah do to appease our fury?

 

Haha Renraged...I love that!

 

It may be too late.. for me...I guess anything is possible...okay...bottom line...Sandro went in with his eyes open...he saw with his own eyes how Jonah reacted when he saw Ren...If I was him I would walk away...but he probably won't...so if Jonah has the big balls to tell Sandro he wants only Ren and takes his share of the blame(which is most of it) and can convince Ren to try again...I could live with that....and for some reason, as an aside, I am getting a bad vibe from Michael now...wtf???

 

Honestly, it may be too late for me too, unless they haven't actually slept together after all this time (seriously doubt it)  I just can't see Ren getting past that.  Would you?  I don't necessarily think Jonah is mostly to blame, but he is definitely doing the most damage with the most casualties since he decided to flee to Italy.  

 

I just don't think Ren should wait for him anymore.  Ren deserves someone who can try to trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt.  Right now that's NOT Jonah. I'm not sure anymore it can ever be Jonah (especially in only a few more chapters).  After a year together, if he couldn't wait for more than a few weeks before starting things with Sandro then Ren wasn't as important to Jonah as Ren should have been.  Edit:  If someone says he took up with Sandro because he thought Ren cheated then that makes Jonah even worse in my books because then he was using Sandro.  

 

The new guy also needs to be someone who has never met or heard of Jonah.  Enough of this crazy roller coaster that surrounds Jonah and his friends.   

Edited January 26, 2015 by LitLover

[Irritable1]

See, Addy, it doesn't matter how much cheap Zin you pour into me. The will is no longer there. If TWAT were a Polar expedition, we'd be eating the sled dogs by now. It's over.

[Aditus]

See, Addy, it doesn't matter how much cheap Zin you pour into me. The will is no longer there. If TWAT were a Polar expedition, we'd be eating the sled dogs by now. It's over.

[Timothy M.]

He wasn't having nervous breakdown the entire time. Talk before taking off to Italy, that's all.

 

Yes he was. He was still in mental melt down when he arrived in Sicily and for days after.

 

Let's get the timeline right here:

1. Jonah sees Eric and Ren pretending to be a loving couple in restaurant.
2. Jonah sends waiter with key to Ren and goes out kitchen door.
3. Ren tries to ring Jonah, who ignores it.
4. Jonah feels like his heart is being torn out.
5. Jonah gets to Chris' place,  throws up and 'a trembling mess.'
6. He says (maybe in retrospect) 'That Tuesday evening I gave up on trust.'
7. Jonah is put to bed with a sedative and a massage. He wakes up at ten am the next day.
8. Chris yells at Ren on the phone and tells him Jonah has a mental breakdown.
9. Jonah tries to understand why Ren would cheat on him with Eric.
10. There is this exchange: Chris: "You could always stay and confront him, you know." Jonah: "No, I couldn't do that. I-I just couldn't… see him. Oh God, I’m so embarrassed."
11. He goes back to bed and is more or less in a zombie state.
12. Ren bangs on the door at some point and Chris shouts some more at him.
13. Jonah wakes up at three in the afternoon the next day and talks to Michael and Chris about going to Sicily.
14. Michael say Ren 'thinks he is being wrongfully accused.' (none of them buys it)
15. Chris suggests he meets up with Ren.
16. Jonahs reaction: The right thing would be for me to talk to Ren. I knew that, but the mere thought of sitting in front of him, seeing his face, made me feel nauseous.
17. Jonah books a flight to Sicily while Michael gets his stuff and Chris meets with Ren.
18. Ren says the nasty stuff to Chris in the restaurant, knowing this will destroy everything (by his own later admission)
19. Chris tells Jonah who takes off for Sicily.

Will you please tell me WHERE in this timeline (from 1 to 18) you can see Jonah being in a rational enough state of mind to talk to Ren?

 

He knows he should, but he cannot face the idea (see 10 and 16). We are talking less than 48 hours after he sees Ren and Erik as 'lovers' till the point where Ren decides he cannot forgive Jonah for not trusting him. Once Ren says those things to Chris in the cafe, any chance of Jonah talking to him is gone.

 

Of course, you can keep saying Jonah should have known Ren would never do this to him. There must be some other explanation. Now we know there is: Eric tricked Ren. And Jonah would work this out how? We didn't. Matteo is the only one to suggest something is wrong with the idea, but this is long after 18. The cafe moment.

 

Was Jonah wrong in thinking Ren was cheating on him? Yes.

Would you have been able to disbelieve the evidence of your own eyes (not some vague rumor)?

I wouldn't, and Jonah couldn't. Was this the fault of Jonah and Chris (two guys who had both been played by Eric already) - or should we blame Eric, and perhaps Ren for trusting Eric?

 

Would Jonah have found out if only he had talked to Ren? Yes.

Would he have found out if Ren had told Chris the truth in the cafe? (assuming Ren already knew the whole thing from Eric, but even without that he could have said the role play stuff) Yes.

 

For my part, I think Jonah is less to blame for not trusting Ren and for not being rational in those 48 hours, than Ren is to blame for not understanding why Jonah came to the wrong conclusion and for destroying the last chance by his words in the cafe. But I'm fine with saying they both are equally at fault.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Irritable1]

What I can't understand, Tim, is why you believe Ren and Jonah will wind up together. Those of us who mostly blame Jonah for the mess have given up on it!

[Aditus]

Because Tim is a 'Ranting Romantic'.

[Irritable1]

Well I did say after the cathedral chapter that I just wanted Jonah to be happy, right? I guess I have to stand by that. Though I didn't realize at the time there would be so much collateral damage involved.

 

Edit: oh, and by the way, Tim, ren did manage in between all the drama to convey that he thought he was innocent and neither Chris nor Michael believed him, but they told Jonah and apparently he took their word for it that Ren must be nuts to think that.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Irritable1