readers Readers, What Do You Skip?

[Carlos Hazday]

@Thorn Wilde

 

I realize I'm in the minority here. Most readers like angst and sappy romance. I dislike both. The most popular chapters in my long series involve tissues. To dry tears of sadness or happiness, Killing the sister of an MC garnered more reaction (aside from a couple of tales with guns) than even the long-awaited wedding.

 

Our experiences shape us, and we must all write what we feel comfortable with. For me it's a kid being bullied, learning how to defend himself, and breaking the bully's nose in the end. I love the MC having the final word while standing above the person he just shot or beat the crap out of.

[Sweetlion]

Don't remember if I ever wrote in this forum, so I am sorry if I am repeating myself. I am not against anything in particular, although some things have to be done beautifully, otherwise they are harder to let it pass. I did read books with plenty of description, even landscapes (who doesn't remember Shire description in the first 50 pages or so of Lord of the Rings? It's like you have to survive that and the story suddenly blooms). Or sex scenes, sensual and sexual innuendo, even a bit raunchy  (once I read a story where an international exchange student was trying to arouse her professor and says that when she gets pregnant, she wants to do a traditional fish soup from her country with the milk from her breasts). But the thing with descriptions, being external landscapes or internal overused debates and angst, it that for me they became  boring if overly repeated. Same with sex scenes, although I do like sex scenes in stories, when appropriate. They can expressed so many things if properly done, but please if your character do always the same thing, I might not need a detailed description of the same event every time.  The funny thing is that being "boring" as a writer appears in all sorts of situations, from new authors to signature/classic ones. Some examples:

 

I read a pretty long story on site about the life of two young adults (high school, college, 1st jobs). I liked the story (I am plot addicted) and read until the end, but sometimes I noticed that I was quickly reading or jumping parts of the sex scenes. They happened in almost all chapters (or every other one), and although I like blowjobs and sex as much as every other young male, there is so much of "amazing blowjob and sweet lovemaking" from A to B, and B to A next time, that I can read before getting bored with the repetition.

 

There is also an author with tons of stories that I will finish reading because I really want to know what will happen (plot addicted remember?), but most of the stories have similar age target groups and you can feel that either all is characters are a "part of them", or are at least obvious their "sons". All the young men have the same/similar doubts, with similar fears (until here it could be normal), but they all have the habit of having long, suffering internal debates. There is so much of the same "do I do it? No one can know! My life is so horrible messy!" that I can read before I start thinking I already read exactly the same two chapters ago in the previous (and sometimes the same) story. It is like character A in story Z his and alter ego of character B in story Y.

 

I once abandoned a story that had to much sex, and the plot seemed to be cut out just so that all the characters would have their fun in multiple combinations. I am not saying the story was not good, I thing it was even promoted by the site Stories Blog, but for me was tiring. I mean, I am not a prude, but if I wanted sex only I would look for it specifically in other places, I don't need to suffer through a plot with weirdly bad decisions just so the "two couples can have a fuck feast", or that single guys get invited to join the couples to "cheer them up" and provide "emotional support". There are quicker ways if I want to read sex only 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Sweetlion
Sorry for the extra long email, I just feel that opinions that are not explained might be misinterpreted

[Former Member]

7 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Our experiences shape us, and we must all write what we feel comfortable with. For me it's a kid being bullied, learning how to defend himself, and breaking the bully's nose in the end. I love the MC having the final word while standing above the person he just shot or beat the crap out of.

I prefer a less violent resolution.  ;–)

[Sweetlion]

Forgot to say that as a non native, I understand and don't judge to hard if there are some english mistakes. I live in the US now, and used english to write in the professional world before. Still do some mistakes. But there is a minimum of punctuation, an sentence building, below which I cannot read. At least please turn on the Word grammar and spelling corrector, and run through your story after you finish writing it.

[TetRefine]

I guess I just like tragedy. I like endings to be messy and not as we hoped. My absolute favorite book, Dancer From The Dance is tragic in just about every way. The setting, the lives of the characters, the characters themselves, and how it ends. The hopelessness and sense of loss that is present throughout the entire novel just gripped me in a way that no happy story ever could or can. It felt so gritty and real it was almost scary. 

[Thorn Wilde]

32 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

I prefer a less violent resolution.  ;–)

 

I was going to say this too. I’m more the show the bully the error of his ways through love kind of person. Violence begets violence and so on.

 

22 minutes ago, TetRefine said:

I guess I just like tragedy. I like endings to be messy and not as we hoped. My absolute favorite book, Dancer From The Dance is tragic in just about every way. The setting, the lives of the characters, the characters themselves, and how it ends. The hopelessness and sense of loss that is present throughout the entire novel just gripped me in a way that no happy story ever could or can. It felt so gritty and real it was almost scary. 

 

Same. Tragedies are great. I mean, most of my stories have happy endings of one kind or another, but boy do I put my guys through hell to get there.

[Carlos Hazday]

 

Bring on the ass kickings! That will show bullies the error of their way. If not Smith and Wesson can help. I am NOT a pacifist.

[Thorn Wilde]

1 hour ago, Carlos Hazday said:

@Thorn Wilde

 

I realize I'm in the minority here. Most readers like angst and sappy romance. I dislike both. The most popular chapters in my long series involve tissues. To dry tears of sadness or happiness, Killing the sister of an MC garnered more reaction (aside from a couple of tales with guns) than even the long-awaited wedding.

 

Oh, I am not a fan of sappy romance in general. I mean, it has its place and I do write sweet moments between my characters, but some of my favourite things I’ve ever written have romances devoid of sap and full of passion and conflict. This is why I don’t write weddings. They get too sappy.  

 

24 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

 

Bring on the ass kickings! That will show bullies the error of their way. If not Smith and Wesson can help. I am NOT a pacifist.

 

Yeah, I’m a hippie.  Violence is almost always presented negatively in my stories.

[Carlos Hazday]

17 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

This is why I don’t write weddings. They get too sappy.  

 

 

My last one had the entire wedding party throw the grooms on the ground and jumped on them. Think sports victory celebration. The fact they did it in front of a former President of the United States didn't seem to bother them.

[Thirdly]

Well, when I was a kid, I loved to read anything and I was given all kinds of books by others to read. So, I'd skip all the lovemaking scenes in romance novels because I didn't understand much of what they were doing. There was one book from a series that my older cousin was reading and she let me borrow that traumatized me a bit...something about a young pregnant woman whose caretaker or aunt or something drugged her whenever she was about to give birth so that she could kill and bury the babies...she did manage to escape that house and live on her own, protecting her unborn kid, but still. Freaked me out at the time. Now as an adult I kind of want to find that book again to figure out just who the heck kept getting her pregnant in the first place. 

[Thorn Wilde]

48 minutes ago, Thirdly said:

Well, when I was a kid, I loved to read anything and I was given all kinds of books by others to read. So, I'd skip all the lovemaking scenes in romance novels because I didn't understand much of what they were doing. There was one book from a series that my older cousin was reading and she let me borrow that traumatized me a bit...something about a young pregnant woman whose caretaker or aunt or something drugged her whenever she was about to give birth so that she could kill and bury the babies...she did manage to escape that house and live on her own, protecting her unborn kid, but still. Freaked me out at the time. Now as an adult I kind of want to find that book again to figure out just who the heck kept getting her pregnant in the first place. 

That's.... super irresponsible for people to give a kid books with such adult themes. Children and adults are freaked out by completely different things. Scary books for kids generally isn't a problem, but adult novels with things that kids can't begin to understand, that can be seriously damaging.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Thorn Wilde

[Thirdly]

8 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

That's.... super irresponsible for people to give a kid books with such adult themes. Children and adults are freaked out by completely different things. Scary books for kids generally isn't a problem, but adult novels with things that kids can't begin to understand, that can be seriously damaging.

 

Well, to be honest, the most damaging to me were the manipulations of twisted folk...far beyond reading adult themed books. I do agree with what you're saying, though.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Thirdly

[PaulP]

Stories whose first grammar error is in the title.

[M1984]

Sex scenes. Especially after the first one. I'm not a prude or anything like that. I just find those scenes uninteresting after the first time. Although I try to make sure I'm not missing anything relevant to the story in doing so. Some stories have way too many, imo, and it can get in the way of the flow of the story. Although that's not something I encountered on here, but on an Audible book, recently.

[LJCC]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:05 PM, M1984 said:

Sex scenes. Especially after the first one. I'm not a prude or anything like that. I just find those scenes uninteresting after the first time. Although I try to make sure I'm not missing anything relevant to the story in doing so. Some stories have way too many, imo, and it can get in the way of the flow of the story. Although that's not something I encountered on here, but on an Audible book, recently.

50 shades of Gurrey would like to know your address. Hahaha.

[IBEX]

Sex scenes. Definitely. I much prefer some insinuation, innuendo if need be...I can imagine quite well the how and what...it's almost exclusively second grade vanilla anyway.

Poor grammar - at least when it's much worse than my own as non native speaker. A distinct pet peeve are the, oh so frequently appearing, homophones. - I only have a 30 inch waste, because I waist so much of my time in the gym. 😉

Long winded description of eye and hair color, body shape and what not, of every, even minor characters. It's never necessary for any story...readers will always picture your characters in their mind differently.

What makes me actually quit a story?

Repetitive plots by the same author. When I realise, I have read it all before - and there is absolutely NO new twist, character development or a new/exciting finish...

Or, when I get the feeling an author has run out of ideas, and either rushes the story to a poorly planned out and unsatisfactory finish, or some weird "deus ex machina" plots get introduced, in an - usually futile - attempt to save a storyline that got stuck in the mud, or run up to a dead end in a single track street.

Preaching. I stopped following an author when after his first story, the second and third promised to be just more of (in that case) a pro-catholic proselyticing. Mind you, characters can have their faith, cherish it, be destroyed by it, but I don't want sweetly sermons constantly in the storyline.

Pet peeves? Too obvious stereotypes. Overused plots - one more accident killing both parents at once, and I start screaming!

Trigger warnings. Absolutely. Spare me those, as long as the bible is a topic in school still. I can deal with emotions, should they overcome me. In fact, I consider writing to be good when it can actually change my mood - either direction.

I am sure I can find more....but you get the idea! Besides, I rather see what you guys have written for my perusal and enjoyment now, than spend too much time thinking about the lttle things I found annoying in the past! Keep up your work, and have my sincerest thanks!

Edited February 16, 2020 by IBEX

[Thorn Wilde]

20 hours ago, IBEX said:

Trigger warnings. Absolutely. Spare me those, as long as the bible is a topic in school still. I acn deal with emotions, should they overcome me. In fact, I consider writing to be good when it can actually change my mood - either direction.

That's great, but then those warnings aren't for you; they're for people who have experienced trauma and would like to avoid it in the things they read or would like to be prepared for it before they read it, and for otherwise sensitive readers. I failed to put a content warning on a story that contained sexual assault that happened off the page (non-graphic, in other words). It did not go over well and I now make sure to include content warnings for sensitive themes not just in story notes, but in the individual chapters, because I know that's something many readers want and need. And if they bother you and you don't want spoilers or whatever, just skip past them.

EDIT: A note on wording. I've found that what people actually react to is, for some reason, the word 'trigger' rather than the actual warning. This is a word out of psychology. People with various mental illnesses can have episodes triggered by a variety of things. For example, I'm bipolar; my depressive and hypomanic episodes are often triggered by stress (emotional or physical) or big changes in my life, both good and bad (a life change that is ultimately good, such as a new job I really like, can nevertheless make me depressed because it causes stress). For a person with PTSD, episodes are often triggered by a reminder of the trauma they went through. That's what 'trigger' means.

For some reason, the moment you skip the word 'trigger' in favour of 'content', or you write just 'warning', nobody cares anymore, even though it's the exact same warning. And, just so we're clear, GA actually demands that authors place warnings on sensitive content, as do many other fiction websites. All things to think about the next time someones see the word 'trigger warning' and lets it turn them off reading a story.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Thorn Wilde
Further thoughts on the topic added.

[Hstrychsr]

Long, detailed descriptions will instantly put me in a coma.  

The over-use of the word 'had' will have me throwing a book away or hitting the delete button on my Kindle.

Too many editing errors will ensure I never finish reading the story. 

[Thorn Wilde]

4 hours ago, Hstrychsr said:

Long, detailed descriptions will instantly put me in a coma.  

The over-use of the word 'had' will have me throwing a book away or hitting the delete button on my Kindle.

Too many editing errors will ensure I never finish reading the story. 

Sometimes 'had' is necessary; past perfect is often needed when writing a story in past tense, and then 'had' is essential. That's just good grammar. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Hstrychsr said:

Long, detailed descriptions will instantly put me in a coma.  

Too many editing errors will ensure I never finish reading the story. 

I like long, detailed descriptions of some things, if well-written. I really enjoyed reading Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings trilogy. I read The Hobbit and the trilogy probably more than a dozen times through (completing the series and starting all over again) during junior high and high school.

There are some long, detailed descriptions that are tedious and boring. I find extremely detailed sex scenes particularly disturbing. I have a very active imagination and I prefer not to have an author describing their erotic fantasies in a story. I am more than fine to have the narration leave the bedroom, closing the door behind us and picking up with a brief, general outline of what occurred.
 

There are times when I can be forgiving of spelling and grammatical errors, particularly if the author’s first language is not English. I also have a friend whose stories are riddled with missing words, odd phrasing, and misspelled words – I know that he’s struggling with rapidly deteriorating vision so I am much more forgiving than I would be otherwise. I am also more likely to be lenient with a first-time writer, especially if they are open to editing suggestions via PM.

[Hstrychsr]

droughtquake - I hear you.  There can be valid reasons for many types of mistakes - even in our writing!  However, I have paid good money for too many books from well established authors only to find the book peppered with problems.  When a friend of mine asked me to do some editing and beta reading, I returned to him with a single sentence - his, from his own book.

John had had a friendship since he had met Raven in the third grade, and the two of them had become instant besties.

Seriously?!  All those hads...!  Over the years, I have come to view that word as measuring tool.  The more often it shows up, the newer the writer.  It's difficult to believe that an experienced writer would EVER leave that sentence alone.  After putting out money, a person should not have to deal with those types of errors, even if the writing obviously comes from an inexperienced author.  Editing and beta readers are important.  ...or maybe I'm just a grumpy ol' snob..?

[CassieQ]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:41 PM, Kitt said:

I am beginning to wonder if some of you read ANYTHING.  If you eliminate everything that has been done before, characters who speak poorly, and authors who tell a good story but need technical help, It doesn't leave too much to read!

Astonishingly, I manage to find plenty to read that doesn't have the problems listed above.

[Brayon]

On 11/5/2017 at 8:59 AM, Brayon said:

I'm the opposite of people here. Infodumps are alright. Tell, don't show. I want details. Give me descriptions. The more the better.

 

On 11/5/2017 at 9:04 AM, JayT said:

You're a big Tolkien fan aren't you??? hehehe

 

On 11/5/2017 at 9:08 AM, Brayon said:

Opposite actually. I hate Tolkien with a passion man. Love the genre he is credited for starting, but his writing is extremely dry in my opinion. I've literally used the LotR trilogy as a cure for insomnia on my really bad nights.

 

There has to be a balance in the details, and descriptions. Make it to where I can picture the place, that you the author is telling me about, but I don't need a play-by-play on how many ants infest an ant hill, three miles north, of the rock we just sat on, to eat lunch.

Three years later I still stand by this. Also, if I hear the phrase, "Show, Don't Tell" uttered in my direction again, I'm liable to slap the ever-loving shite out of the person.

[Backwoods Boy]

I hadn't seen this topic before, and I find the responses interesting - and quite diverse.  Which means you're never going to please everyone. 

So, as a writer, be sure to please yourself first.

But for myself as a reader:

In cost/benefit terms, it takes a lot of plot benefit to overcome bad-grammar costs.  Run-on and poorly-organized sentences send me away immediately. 

Punctuation counts, and as much complaint as there is about the English language, the punctuation rules aren't that difficult to understand.  For me as a reader, they don't have to be followed religiously, but the exceptions should be few and justifiable.  I once went to a restaurant where every plural had an apostrophe in front of the terminal "s".  Unfortunately, that spelled out the quality of the meal, too. 

As to the rest of grammar, the internet provides wonderful resources.  And in spite of the value of grammar detection tools, good luck.  To my own experience, even the best have serious faults.  Every author needs an anal-retentive editor and preferably one or two beta readers.  A grammar tool and one set of eyes isn't enough.

An info-dump ends my interest.  If it isn't critical to the plot, I would rather decide for myself why the guy is "hot" or "sexy".  Let the readers exercise their own imagination, please.

There's a fiction that circulates from time to time that the first chapter must introduce the main characters.  I prefer the first chapter to grab my attention, and if some main characters don't show up for a few chapters, that's fine with me.

I don't care for excessive detail.  It only takes a sentence or two and a few well-chosen words to establish the environment, physical and/or emotional.  Don't flog it to death.  And individual relationships between each and every character expand exponentially, don't always matter, and bloat an otherwise-interesting story.

I don't care if dialogue isn't written in the Queen's English.  People don't speak that way, so why pretend that they do?  On the other hand, about the third time an overworked cliche is used, I leave, just like in real life.

I read several genres, and understand that some leap beyond earthly constraints of gravity, time, and space.  But even with that freedom, the story still has to make sense, if only within the bounds the author sets.

So, thanks for the opportunity to express my thoughts on the topic.  Getting them out of my brain helps me understand them better.

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Backwoods Boy said:

I once went to a restaurant where every plural had an apostrophe in front of the terminal "s".  Unfortunately, that spelled out the quality of the meal, too. 

Graphically, the use of quotation marks as a method of emphasis is one of my pet peeves! It’s amusing when it can be interpreted as a sarcastic or ironic calling out.

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