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Aliens, UFOs and Flying Saucers

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The Guardian

Mon 22 Mar 2021 13.43 GMT

UFO report details ‘difficult to explain’ sightings, says US ex-intelligence director

US military pilots and satellites have recorded “a lot more” sightings of unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, than have been made public, Donald Trump’s former intelligence director John Ratcliffe said.

The truth is out there … perhaps: CIA releases thousands of UFO files

Read more

Asked on Fox News about a forthcoming government report on “unidentified aerial phenomena”, Ratcliffe said the report would document previously unknown sightings from “all over the world”.

“Frankly, there are a lot more sightings than have been made public,” he said.

“Some of those have been declassified. And when we talk about sightings, we are talking about objects that have been seen by navy or air force pilots, or have been picked up by satellite imagery, that frankly engage in actions that are difficult to explain, movements that are hard to replicate, that we don’t have the technology for.

“Or traveling at speeds that exceed the sound barrier without a sonic boom.”

A video grab obtained 28 April 2020 courtesy of the US defense department shows part of an unclassified video taken by navy pilots. Photograph: DoD/AFP via Getty Images

The UFO report must be published by early June, pursuant to a clause in a Covid relief and spending package signed by Trump before he left office.

Ratcliffe served about eight months as director of national intelligence at the end of Trump’s term. Earlier, Trump moved to nominate Ratcliffe for the role but Ratcliffe withdrew over concerns he had exaggerated and fibbed about his experience as a prosecutor in Texas.

“I actually wanted to get this information out and declassify it before I left office,” Ratcliffe said, “but we weren’t able to get it down into an unclassified format that we were able to talk about quickly enough.”

The forthcoming report is to be issued by the defense department and intelligence agencies. When an unidentified aerial phenomena is identified, Ratcliffe said, analysts try to explain it as a potential weather disturbance or other routine spectacle.

“We always look for a plausible explanation,” he said. “Sometimes we wonder whether our adversaries have technologies that are a little bit farther down the road than we thought or that we realized.

“But there are instances where we don’t have good explanations.

“So in short, things that we are observing that are difficult to explain – and so there’s actually quite a few of those, and I think that that info has been gathered and will be put out in a way the American people can see.”

Asked by Bartiromo where the unidentified phenomena were sighted, Ratcliffe replied, “actually all over the world, there have been sightings all over the world.

“Multiple sensors that are picking up these things. They’re unexplained phenomenon, and there’s actually quite a few more than have been made public.” 



Strange but true

Fifty one years ago, Britain’s nationalised railway company, British Rail, filed a patent for a fusion powered flying saucer.

Quite why the board of a railway company was focusing on interplanetary travel when it couldn’t even run the trains on time is perhaps a bigger mystery than whether UFOs are real... :lol:


  • In 1970, the British Railways Board filed a patent for a spacecraft powered by "controlled thermonuclear fusion reaction". 
  • The original patent application said the reaction would be "ignited by one or more pulsed laser beams". 
  • A patent document reads: "The present invention relates to a space vehicle. More particularly it relates to a power supply for a space vehicle which offers a source of sustained thrust for the loss of a very small mass of fuel. Thus it would enable very high velocities to be attained in a space vehicle and in fact the prolonged acceleration of the vehicle may in some circumstances be used to simulate gravity."
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Area 51 Aliens GIF by HISTORY UK


I enjoy Ancient Aliens as they tend to ask a lot of questions that don't have a clear answer.  Especially as an engineer, looking at some of the megalithic structures and pondering how we could do it today, let alone how they did it back before the wheel.

As for the train part of government patenting space tech... well... no one would notice if the train folks did it, but if the air force did, people would have hair that looks like his:

im not saying ancient aliens GIF

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Perhaps as part of the same "information dump" the Navy just confirmed a warship 100 miles off the Southern California coast was compromised by a 100 or more "Tic-Tac" shaped aerial phenomena, who seemed to be scanning the vessel stem to stern. The Navy has no explanation, as remote controlled drones are blocked by military radio signals, and they cannot operate at great distances. This, in case you were wondering, was in 2017.      

Edited by AC Benus
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As much as I hate trying to read Shakespeare... a quote from Hamlet seems to fit on the topic of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon.... "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Something is going on.  Neither option is comforting.  Which is to say, there are aliens messing with the Navy or there is another country on Earth with some mind boggling tech and are messing with the Navy.  Both of those are scary, actually.

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When it comes the question of aliens, why would a race with the wherewithal and knowledge to cross light years want to talk to US?

Our planet just completely screwed itself over a bad cold virus.

We're not ready for interstellar politics. We're not very good at city, state or national politics.

Hell, we can't even decide to use the only two forms of energy that doesn't leave a carbon footprint.

Humans are the trailer trash of the galaxy.


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I read a piece, now many years ago, in which a writer who had interviewed lots of people about UFO's claimed that a retired general in the U.S. Air Force told her that some of the UFO sightings were actually experimental Russian hovercraft with crews composed of short adults and children surgically altered to make them look as though they were from outer space.  The motivation was that Stalin had been very impressed with how Welles's famous "War of the Worlds" broadcast had spread such widespread panic in the U.S., and he had hoped to cause further panic with these hovercraft.

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I love UFO studies from the purported crash landing at Roswell to the official investigation by the Air Force with Project Blue Book.

I agree with @Myrsomething is going on with these strange aerial phenomenon, but it may be neither extraterrestrials nor human governments testing new technologies. We have nothing to offer an advanced civilization with contact and if they can traverse light years, they don't need to appear to us visibly, we already know how to create our own cloaking devices.

As for countries with such Tech, it's possible, but such aircraft test flights could be dangerous if they fail or fall into your enemies hands, why risk such a close flyby, especially when the US Navy is testing Directed Energy Weapons now?

Beyond those two explanation, more extraordinary ideas have to be put out there, stuff like: New terrestrial lifeforms, parallel universe/phase interacting with our own, or even leftover automated technology from advanced human/non-human earth-based civilizations. Our planet has been around for billions of year, I can't believe we're the only semi-intelligent species to develop in that time with technology.

Edited by W_L
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  • 1 month later...

Something very curious is going on...


Recently mainstream UK media have started reporting on UFOs as just another routine news feature.

We’re not talking about the likes of the “Sunday Sport” (favourite headlines: “World War 2 Bomber Found on Moon”, followed a week later by “World War 2 Bomber Found on Moon Mysteriously Vanishes!” :lol:)  but “serious” publications like The Guardian and The Daily Telegraph.

Yet this is all happening when public interest in “aliens” now seems at an all-time low :yawn:

Clearly eagerly interested in next month’s promised (and legally mandated) US Govt report publication on UFOs, yesterday’s Daily Telegraph has a big spread:


The Pentagon thinks UFOs may exist after all... and the evidence is growing

A new report on unidentified flying objects set to be released next month shows the US government is taking aliens increasingly seriously

By Nick Allen, US Editor21 May 2021 • 6:11pm

After decades of doing everything possible to keep reported UFO sightings secret, the Pentagon is changing tack

Lieutenant Commander Alex Dietrich is, by her own admission, a highly rational person.

A US Navy fighter pilot who served combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, she has landed a supersonic F/A-18 jet on an aircraft carrier hundreds of times, and now teaches at the US Naval Academy.

She has also had one of the most famous close encounters with a UFO, or Unidentified Flying Object.

On November 14, 2004, Lt Cdr Dietrich was stationed off the coast of southern California on the USS Nimitz carrier, when numerous flying objects were picked up by ship radar - see the final silent clip in the video below.

The objects had descended impossibly fast, dropping a distance of 80,000ft in less than a second.

Placeholder image for youtube video: PkPn-YMp9vI

In separate planes, Lt Cdr Dietrich and Commander David Fravor were dispatched to investigate.

What they saw on that day has never been adequately explained – until now.

“Enter stage left, the Tic Tac– that’s what we affectionately refer to it as,” says Lt Cdr Dietrich, speaking publicly for the first time this week in an interview with 60 Minutes, the venerable US news programme.

“It jumped from spot to spot, and tumbled around in a way that was unpredictable. The whole time we’re on the radio with each other just losing our minds.”

Cmdr Fravor aggressively engaged one of the oblong objects, which he estimated to be 40ft in length, while Lt Cdr Dietrich adopted “high cover” above.

Then it disappeared.

Ship radar picked it up seconds later, 60 miles away. A third F/A-18 then caught it on an infrared camera: it looked like a giant white Tic Tac.

Lt Cdr Dietrich decided to go public with her story now – three years after Cdr Fravor – to reduce the “stigma” associated with UFO reports and, she says, to encourage other pilots to come forward without feeling “embarrassed or ashamed”.

Her testimony coincides with a growing acceptance among defence officials around the world that there may indeed be something “out there” – and that it might pose a genuine global security threat.

After decades of doing everything possible to keep reported sightings secret, there has been a sea change in how the Pentagon regards such sightings.


A possible UFO sighting, as pictured in a 1998 report by the Journal of Scientific Exploration Credit: Reuters

For starters, it no longer refers to them as UFOs – with their connotations of little green men – but to UAPs, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. Next month, Congress is to be given an unclassified report on evidence collected by the Pentagon’s UAP Task Force, the Office of Naval Intelligence and the FBI.

Ufologists - people who investigate UFOs - across the globe are hailing it as an unprecedented watershed moment in their long quest to uncover what the US government really knows – and they have former president Donald Trump to thank for it.

In December, when Mr Trump signed his mammoth $2.3 trillion coronavirus relief bill into law, it contained a little remarked upon clause requiring a full report on UFOs within 180 days, i.e. by June 25.

“We’re absolutely in new territory here,” says Nick Pope, who investigated UFO sightings while working as a British civil servant for the Ministry of Defence in the 1990s.

“What’s really elevated this is the sheer number, and position, of people now speaking out, saying we’re dealing with something that must be taken seriously," he added.

“When top guns, who don’t impress easily, get excited about the capability of these objects, their speed, manoeuvrability, trans-medium travel in water and air… that gets my attention.

"The pilot testimony is important, but there is so much more: radar data, infrared, measurement and signature intelligence… and we’ll get to see some of it.”

John Ratcliffe, director of National Intelligence under President Trump, raised anticipation when he hinted recently that there was “a lot” more information than the public currently knows.

He said he had seen satellite imagery of objects “frankly engaging in actions that are difficult to explain”, and incidents of them breaking the sound barrier with no sonic boom.

Former president Barack Obama – who has long joked in interviews that he knows things about “aliens” that he cannot talk about – this week echoed that sentiment during an interview with James Corden.

“What is true – and I’m actually being serious here – is that there’s footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are," he said. "We can’t explain how they moved.”

Placeholder image for youtube video: xp6Ph5iTIgc

The United States’ long history of UFO sightings began in earnest on June 24, 1947 when Kenneth Arnold, an amateur pilot, reported seeing nine objects flying near Mount Rainier in Washington state. Newspapers at the time coined the term “flying saucers”.

The following month, a farmer found wreckage on a ranch near Roswell, New Mexico. In a press release, the US military called it a “flying disc”, but later said it was part of a weather balloon.


A local newspaper's front page after the Roswell crash Credit: Sipa/Shutterstock 

Regardless, a decades-long conspiracy theory was born.

By the 1950s, the US Air Force was being inundated with UFO reports from the public. One of the most notorious was the so-called “Invasion of Washington” in 1952, when numerous sightings were made over the capital in a two-week period.

It was the Cold War, and the CIA, fearing mass hysteria could play into the hands of the Soviet Union, worked to debunk sightings and infiltrate UFO-hunting groups.

Project Blue Book, a US Air Force unit, was set up to analyse thousands of sightings – but, in 1968, a 1,485-page government report written by physicist Edward Condon concluded that there was nothing of interest.

“Further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified,” it said.

For decades afterwards, anyone who reported seeing something strange in the sky was considered a crackpot – even leading lights in the US military.

However, there remained a few highly influential figures who believed a mystery was there to be solved. The most powerful among them was Senator Harry Reid, the Democrat leader in the US Senate from 2005 to 2017.

Mr Reid represented the state of Nevada – home to Area 51, the highly classified US Air Force base which has been the subject of many UFO conspiracy theories and Hollywood films.



A visitor poses a doll at Area 51, a secretive US military base believed by UFO enthusiasts to hold government secrets about extra-terrestrials Credit: JIM URQUHART /REUTERS

In 2007, Mr Reid managed to push through Congress, clandestinely, $22 million in “black ops” funding for a new department. It was innocuously named the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP).

From a fifth-floor office deep inside the Pentagon, a real-life X-Files team studied hundreds of reported UFO sightings – including the USS Nimitz “Tic Tac” incident from 2004.

The department was led by Luis Elizondo, a career intelligence official who later resigned because he felt his findings were not being taken seriously enough.

Shortly after his departure in late 2017, Mr Elizondo told the Telegraph how his team established geographical “hot spots” for sightings, sometimes near nuclear facilities, and common ways in which UFOs moved.

“We began to see trends and similarities in incidents – very distinct observables. Extreme manoeuvrability, hypersonic velocity without a sonic boom, speeds of 8,000mph. A lot of this was supported by radar signal data, gun camera footage from aircraft, multiple witnesses.”

He said he came to a “realisation that these are probably not any type of aircraft in any national inventory. I think it’s pretty clear it’s not us. So one has to ask the question where they’re from.”

He also added: “There was never any display of hostility.”

A key moment in the UFO debate – and whether it should be taken seriously – came in 2017 when the New York Times published the infrared video of the “Tic Tac” sighting. Ufologists felt vindicated, not least because it proved the Pentagon had seen fit to investigate the incident.

Today, thanks to lockdown – which provided a dramatic reduction in light pollution coupled with an army of people with empty evenings on their hands – supposed UFO sightings have proliferated around the globe.

In the UK alone, reports of suspected alien spacecraft doubled last year.

And once-secret intelligence just keeps coming. Last month, footage of bizarre images of flashing pyramid-shaped UFOs was posted online, which the Pentagon confirmed was taken in 2019, by a US Navy ship off California.

Another leaked video, taken from a fighter jet in 2015, showed a small object moving at tremendously high speed just above the water off Virginia on the US east coast. Pilots could be heard yelling: “Oh my gosh, dude” and “Wow! What is that, man? Look at that flying!”

In another incident, pilots reported seeing an object that looked like a cube inside a sphere flying between their aircraft, which were barely 100ft apart.

Many of these incidents are expected to be further detailed in next month’s report. But even though it will be “unclassified”, it's still unclear exactly how much will come out.

“I expect a very drone-heavy narrative,” says Mr Pope, the former British civil servant.

“I don’t expect it’ll plunge into extraterrestrial visitation. If there is anything really juicy, it will probably be in the classified annex. Governments are just nervous and reluctant to say ‘We don’t know...’ because it makes them look weak and ineffective.

“But that may be the position we’re in.”





Edited by Zombie
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The Daily Telegraph is paywall so the previous post was cut + pasted but it had links to early photos of UFOs dating back to the 19th and early 20th centuries - if anyone wants I can cut+paste these too.

What’s interesting is the remarkable variety of shapes and types (and “behaviours”) of these objects. It’s like there’s a whole “model range” for aliens to choose from - “What do you think, shall we take the Big Daddy Caddy with the tail fins? Or maybe the shape-shifting little compact? Or do we need the Mother Ship this time?”

Then there’s the quality of the photos and videos - or their absence.

So, we get decent quality pics/vids  of “objects” that can later be identified as natural events:


(subsequently explained by a meteorologist to be an iridescent ice cloud)

...and this famous film shot with an 8mm home movie camera by tourist Linda Baker in 1972 while on vacation near Jackson Lake, Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming, which later analysis determined was not a UFO but a very very close encounter with an asteroid which just grazed the upper atmosphere of the planet, leaving a clear trail of vaporised debris, before continuing on into space


Back in 1972 home movie cameras were pretty rare 

But now pretty much everyone carries a movie camera in their pocket

...that since at least 10 years ago can shoot high definition video

So where are all the HD videos to prove, once and for all, that UFOs really are not of this world?



Edited by Zombie
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  • 2 weeks later...

Sneak leak...


U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either

A new report concedes that much about the observed phenomena remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, as well as ability to change direction and submerge.

June 3, 2021


U.S. Navy Releases Videos of Unexplained Flying Objects

The U.S. Navy has officially published previously released videos showing unexplained objects.


[radio transmission] “Whoa, got it — woo-hoo!” “Roger —” “What the [expletive] is that?” “Did you box a moving target?” “No, I took an auto track.” “Oh, OK.” “Oh my gosh, dude. Wow” “What is that man?” “There’s a whole screen of them. My gosh.” “They’re all going against the wind. The wind’s 120 knots from west.” “Dude.” “That’s not — is it?” “[inaudible]” “Look at that thing.”

The U.S. Navy has officially published previously released videos showing unexplained objects.Department of Defense, via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

WASHINGTON — American intelligence officials have found no evidence that aerial phenomena witnessed by Navy pilots in recent years are alien spacecraft, but they still cannot explain the unusual movements that have mystified scientists and the military, according to senior administration officials briefed on the findings of a highly anticipated government report.

The report determines that a vast majority of more than 120 incidents over the past two decades did not originate from any American military or other advanced U.S. government technology, the officials said. That determination would appear to eliminate the possibility that Navy pilots who reported seeing unexplained aircraft might have encountered programs the government meant to keep secret.

But that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomena observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft.

Americans’ long-running fascination with U.F.O.s has intensified in recent weeks in anticipation of the release of the government report. Former President Barack Obama further stoked the interest when he was asked last month about the incidents on “The Late Late Show with James Corden” on CBS.

“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here,” Mr. Obama said, “is that there is footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are.’’

The report concedes that much about the observed phenomena remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, as well as ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather balloons or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.

The final report will also include a classified annex, the officials said. While the annex will not contain any evidence concluding that the phenomena are alien spacecraft, the officials acknowledged that the fact that it would remain off limits to the public was likely to continue to fuel speculation that the government had secret data about alien visitations to Earth.

Many of the more than 120 incidents examined in the report are from Navy personnel, officials said. The report also examined incidents involving foreign militaries over the last two decades. Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could have been experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China.

One senior official briefed on the intelligence said without hesitation that U.S. officials knew it was not American technology. He said there was worry among intelligence and military officials that China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology.

He and other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the classified findings in the report.

Russia has been investing heavily in hypersonics, believing the technology offers it the ability to evade American missile-defense technology. China has also developed hypersonic weaponry, and included it in military parades. If the phenomena were Chinese or Russian aircraft, officials said, that would suggest the two powers’ hypersonic research had far outpaced American military development.

Navy pilots were often unsettled by the sightings. In one encounter, strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who was with the Navy for 10 years, told The New York Times in an interview, “These things would be out there all day.” With the speeds he and other pilots observed, he said, “12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were recorded on video, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching.

The Defense Department has been collecting such reports for more than 13 years as part of a shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program within the Pentagon. The program analyzed radar data, video footage and accounts provided by the Navy pilots and senior officers.

The program began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time. It was officially shut down in 2012, when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But after the publication of a New York Times article in 2017 about the program and criticism from program officials that the government was not forthcoming about reports on aerial phenomena, the Pentagon restarted the program last summer as the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.

The task force’s mission was to “detect, analyze and catalog” sightings of strange objects in the sky that could pose a threat to national security. But government officials said they also wanted to remove the stigma for service members who report U.F.O. sightings in the hope that more would be encouraged to speak up if they saw something. The goal, officials said, was to give authorities a better idea of what might be out there.

A video shows an encounter between a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.U.S. Department of Defense

Last year, lawmakers inserted a provision in the Intelligence Authorization Act that said the government must submit an unclassified report on what it knows about U.F.O.s. That report is the one to be released this month.

Officials briefed on the report said it also examined video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004.

In that incident, the pilots reported an interaction with the craft, which lasted for several minutes. At one point, the object peeled away, one of the pilots, Cmdr. David Fravor, later said in an interview with The Times. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said.

The report studies that incident, including the video that accompanied the interaction. The provenance of the object, the officials said, is still unknown.



So, there we have it. All cleared up... :unsure:  :gikkle:


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  • 4 months later...


Picked up a complete boxset cheap on eBay of this US TV series from 1999-2002 and just finished s1.

It’s an easy, enjoyable, escapist watch and just what I wanted. OK, a high-school teen-love drama with actors well past school age :P is a tired old trope. But throw in aliens, “identity politics”, evil govt black ops and a killer Dido theme and it holds up pretty well after 22 years.

Don’t know how s2 and s3 will pan out but so far I’m happy with my bargain buy :)



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4 hours ago, wildone said:

I remember watching it live :gikkle: **goes to feed his pet dinosaurs**

I watched it when it was live as well, I had slashed Michael and Kyle in my mind. Kyle never got a real love interest (Tess was more like a sister) and Michael didn't feel right with Maria.

**Guess I'll clean off the tar from my Mammoth as well** :lol:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thinking of aliens, it occurred to me most of them are probably extinct. Given that the universe as it is currently configured is around 16 billion years old, the oldest stars in our galaxy are 8 billion years old, there’s been time enough for races to evolve and die out. Considering that most species that have ever lived on earth are extinct, that may be the answer to the Fermi paradox. Our galaxy may well be inhabited mostly by.tomb worlds and ghosts.

Edited by jamessavik
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interesting that the head of NASA, former astronaut and politician Bill Nelson (appointed earlier this year) has joined the ranks of the many that have held prominent positions in the US military and politics in “coming out” publicly to say that the military encounters included in the Senate report may well be extra-terrestrial

This is a surprising about-turn from his previous statement, as recently as June, when he was asked about the then upcoming Senate report on military encounters with UFAs/UAP and replied he did not consider they provided evidence of extraterrestrial visitations, saying “I think I would know” if that were the case

CNN report 4/6/2021


The Hill report 1/11/2021



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On 3/29/2021 at 7:31 PM, jamessavik said:

Humans are the trailer trash of the galaxy.


James, that may be exactly why they are watching us, because their afraid that we may transport the insanity to other parts of the galaxy.  The good thing is, that if they have been observing or helping us for centuries, at least they're not hostile - or at least they haven't shown that side of themselves to us yet.  If we're lucky, they may step in to help us clean up the mess we've made of the planet, but then again they may be waiting for us to kill the planet and then come down for the natural resources left behind. 

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On 3/27/2021 at 6:09 PM, Myr said:

I enjoy Ancient Aliens as they tend to ask a lot of questions that don't have a clear answer.  Especially as an engineer, looking at some of the megalithic structures and pondering how we could do it today, let alone how they did it back before the wheel.

I agree with Myr about this.  There are too many megalithic structures around the world that show advance engineering techniques that shouldn't have been possible by those living at the time.  Not only that, but those structures also involve/include materials that we would have difficulty moving today, even with our advanced technology and machinery, so how did the ancients achieve these things?  The only logical answer is that they had help from someone more advanced than we are currently.  

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2 hours ago, Bill W said:

I agree with Myr about this.  There are too many megalithic structures around the world that show advance engineering techniques that shouldn't have been possible by those living at the time.  Not only that, but those structures also involve/include materials that we would have difficulty moving today, even with our advanced technology and machinery, so how did the ancients achieve these things?  The only logical answer is that they had help from someone more advanced than we are currently.  

we tend to assume that knowledge and technology developments are a continuous, connected process but history shows they're not

- da Vinci’s discoveries about human anatomy and circulation, especially the heart, were only rediscovered centuries later (he never published)


- concrete was used extensively by Roman engineers including underwater construction of ports and harbours, but this knowledge and technology - which is essential in our modern world - was lost for nearly two thousand years (disruption after the “fall of the Roman Empire”?)


- the Antikythera mechanism, discovered 1901 in an ancient sunken shipwreck, was considered a prochronism and nothing like it has ever been found since. But it cannot have been the only example of such advanced engineering technology, and the associated knowledge needed to conceive it and to construct it has also been lost (all we have is references to other complex devices in various ancient documents that have survived)






Edited by Zombie
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@Zombie, I agree with the examples you gave, but if they had machinery that allowed them to move 50 and 100 ton blocks of stone even before they had the wheel, then that would be amazing and I'd wonder where they got the knowledge from.  Remember, da Vinci had sketched many devices that were way ahead of their time, but there wasn't the technology to build them yet.   Having the idea about doing something and actually being able to pull it off are not the same thing.  The people involved in these constructions often said it was done by the gods, whoever they were, and some of it was accomplished using levitation, while others said the gods melted the stone before reforming it in the shape and placing it where they wanted.  Riddle me how they did those things? 

Edited by Bill W
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