Writing in 1st or 3rd Person Perspective

[Riley Jericho]

Maybe someone can help me here. I

[hh5]

3rd Person - Could be another character or the Narrator\God mode

If its like a bibliographical - then sometimes all the info comes from sources you have interviewed

Please note when writing in third person you're not in the mind of the character.

Its all observation and conjecture.

 

1st Person - As a POV - you're always in the mind and perspective of that character but never in the mind of the other character.

 

You can change POV - especially when the scene changes

[Cia]

The best way around 1st person is allowing the switch in 'characters' you are using for this. Say, chapter one is from "Saul's" pov and chapter two is from "Tom's" pov. It allows you to explore the inner workings and reactions of each character in turn but still limits you somewhat. Some people change pov within a chapter, but that needs clear delineation to avoid confusing the reader. Others simply retell the same events told in the last chapter in the beginning of the 2nd chapter, giving the new character's emotional/mental reactions to flesh out the physical events that was written the last time. It's great when done well but imo 3rd person omniscent is really the easiest to write and read. I'm currently writing 2 stories, one in each. 3rd person flows so much easier for me. Just my two cents.

[Nephylim]

I think it depends what you mean by first person.

 

I usually write first person, either as suggested above by changing that person, either chapter to chapter or by clearly delineating within the chapter where and who is now speaking.

 

OR... as if I am telling a story. If I the narrator of a story I can say I didn't realise it them but X was going on somewhere else.. and then write the scene with X and then come back. Just like you would if you were really telling a story. The difficulty then of course is that the tenses and persons can become confused if you are not careful. For example... if you are writing a story from the narrator thinking back, then most of it is going to be in the past tense but things which remain true to present can be present tense.

 

For example....

 

I was walking down the road at the time. I caught sight of mysel in the shop window and thought I looked fat. Of course now I really am fat.

 

Or

 

I was really annoyed when he kept insisting I had brown eyes. My eyes are clearly green.

 

Have fun

[Graeme]

There are a lot of stories on the Internet written in 1st person that change the POV. There are very few published stories that do that.

 

If you need multiple points of view, I'd recommend third person. You can still write as if it's from a single point of view, but because it's just slightly removed, there is no confusion for the reader. This is known as rotating third person limited. Rotating, because you're changing points of view. Limited, because you're only seeing what a single character can see.

 

eg. Instead of:

 

I walked down the street and noticed Sam leaning against the wall of the warehouse. He looked liked he was having trouble standing.

 

*Sam's Point of view*

 

I really shouldn't have eaten that last hamburger. It hadn't looked quite right, and my stomach was definitely agreeing with that sentiment.

 

try:

 

Bill walked down the street and noticed Sam leaning against the wall of the warehouse. He looked like he was having trouble standing.

 

Sam knew he shouldn't have eaten that last hamburger. It hadn't looked quite right, and his stomach was definitely agreeing with that sentiment.

 

I have one short story that was originally written in first person, and then changed to third person because I wanted the option of changing points of view if I do a sequel or turn it into a novel. It wasn't a difficult job to change. Most of the time it was mechanical, as you can see from the above example, with the occasional place where it needed a bit more of a rewrite.

[Rilbur]

There are a lot of stories on the Internet written in 1st person that change the POV. There are very few published stories that do that.

 

But conversely, they tend to be very memorable. For example, the Dresden series by Jim Butcher is a very good series. First person POV can be hard, but very rewarding well done.

[Graeme]

But conversely, they tend to be very memorable. For example, the Dresden series by Jim Butcher is a very good series. First person POV can be hard, but very rewarding well done.

First person is actually quite easy to do, depending on the story. If a story has a central character and the story revolves around that character, then first person is an excellent choice. This is one of the reasons so many mysteries are written in first person -- the reader learns things at exactly the same time as the person trying to solve the mystery. Of course, mysteries don't have to be written in first person. There are many great mysteries that aren't. Similarly, stories that are essentially about the psychological development of a single character are also a good choice for first person. That's why I chose it for my The Price of Friendship novel -- I wanted the readers to see the development of the central character from within their head.

 

My point was on multiple first person stories. I've only ever seen one in print and it wasn't an easy read (and I don't think being in first person from multiple points of view helped). I've read one quite effective story that was a hybrid -- alternating chapters in first person (character one) and third person limited (character two). But that's something I wouldn't recommend unless you're very confident you can sustain two equal length plots within the one story.

[Tiger]

I've found that I needed to write my first story in 1st. It helped me get used to writing. As I've evolved as an author, I find that 3rd is more suitable. The only way I would write a long story in 1st again is if it was important for character development in the way Graeme said or I were writing a mystery story (which is a maybe). I write in 3rd mostly because I like a wider perspective. I don't like being tied down to one character. I also don't like changing POV. Some good authors have done this, but I am personally opposed to it, whether it is from character to character or from 1st to 3rd. Now, for an example of a superb authors on GA in first person, check out Dom Luka, Krista, and/or Viv. They have mastered it.

[Mark Arbour]

I've found that I needed to write my first story in 1st. It helped me get used to writing. As I've evolved as an author, I find that 3rd is more suitable. The only way I would write a long story in 1st again is if it was important for character development in the way Graeme said or I were writing a mystery story (which is a maybe). I write in 3rd mostly because I like a wider perspective. I don't like being tied down to one character. I also don't like changing POV. Some good authors have done this, but I am personally opposed to it, whether it is from character to character or from 1st to 3rd. Now, for an example of a superb authors on GA in first person, check out Dom Luka, Krista, and/or Viv. They have mastered it.

 

DomLuka and Comicality get my vote.

[John Doe]

For me it makes no difference whatsoever if a story is told in first or third. You just have to write the story well and the execution should be good. The thing is... is this person 's , the one you are trying to write in, POV important. Will it relay any new information? If it's just a retelling of a situation then I say skip it. Personally I don't think the same story should be told twice if we don't get a significant detail out of it. If you are trying to protray an emotion from that other character you can have the cahtacters meet and have a conversation about the meeting. For me, there has to be point and value to having a change in 1st person point of view.

 

and

 

I have to disagree with hh5's comment about not being in someone's head in 3rd person. You can write a 3rd person POV and know everything there is to know about a character. You can be in their minds and tell their thoughts. (But I do know the implications you were trying to imply... ) Really POV doesn't matter. The creative writing department at my uni agrees also. If you write well and your story has a point and is well driven, point of view doesn't matter. You can be personal in boths 1st and 3rd. You can be distant in both 1st and 3rd. The thing that matters is how you write the story... how you utilize the tools of POV... there's a purpose in POV. To go along the lines of hh5's implication, 3rd person usually distances the story from the reader but again I must say a 3rd person story can be very intimate and close.

 

to summarize,

 

If you truely want to add this character's view I would recommend 3rd. As it's easier for most writers.

 

 

[DomLuka]

If it's just a retelling of a situation then I say skip it. Personally I don't think the same story should be told twice if we don't get a significant detail out of it.

 

I've left stories for this reason. 1st or third should be chosen depending on what kind of story you're telling. In first, other characters may be a mystery, but a reader can learn about them through what what they observe/hear. It can be effective if you get creative with it. Think of ways your first/POV character can learn about the feelings/thoughts of other characters without being in the secondary character's head.

 

If you want to tell a story for more than one POV, third is a lot easier to read, IMO. However, if you're only dealing with a couple characters and you just have to show things from a secondary perspective, I believe it's Duncan Ryder who comes to mind. If memory serves he switched to another perspective for one chapter during a story, and it didn't get confusing at all, in fact I think it added to the story.

 

Anyway, you've got a whole lot of options. You'll figure out what works for you. Good luck.

[Riley Jericho]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm overwhelmed and (after a couple of glasses of wine), slightly light headed at the moment, so am still trying to get my head around what is being explained!

 

I put up the question the other day, and thought there was no replies, but that was only because I'd not set the options to email me when a reply came! Ooops. Give me a bit of time and a couple of cups of coffee and I'll be back with more questions.

 

Riley

[John Doe]

 

Is there a way to write well in a 1st person perspective, or is it better to always stick to 3rd person when creating a story?

 

 

I want to address this portion specifically. There is no "way" to write well. Again like I have stated before 1st or 3rd absolutely does not matter. If you write and execute the story well point of view is nothing. POV is a tool to enhance the structure of your story. You have so many options to do what under each category (1st or 3rd). It helps mold your story but it does NOT make your story. As an author you make POV do what you want, POV should not tell your story, but help enhance the story telling. There's a difference. There is... if you don't get it ... I'm sorry I'm a crappy explainer. But back to the write well part... I want to say there is NO way to write well (well there's only ONE way). What I mean is there is no tricks, no tips, no secret, or dust from a fairy that will make you a better writer. The only thing that can make your writing better is to read and write earnestly and and do the two often. Read, read, read, write, write, and write. All the great writers out there don't crap out perfection. They spend years and years at it. Yeah there may be one or two in history who can crap out a good book, but guess what... they have been writing and reading for a long time before that one special golden egg. So with that being said and off my chest... write and read more. What I do is read the stories here and "correct" them. Be harsh (though don't be a jerk and be mean... be consrtuctive and critical). It helps you get better at detecting the wrong things in your story. If a certain one of your story is lagging, take a break from it. The story will come together at one point.

[Riley Jericho]

I want to address this portion specifically. There is no "way" to write well....

 

A bit more together today! But, OK there still has to be a good way to write, doesn't there?

 

It took me some time to realise the POV meant Point of View. I'm not not a complete fool, but I'm not know for being quick. Please don't hold it against me! ...... Now, that's a lot more honest and in your face and real than saying, "Riley wasn't a fool, but was not known to be quick."

 

I've written little, but trying to learn. Someone else said that they started writing in a 1st POV, but moved to 3rd as it was better. But 1st POV can add such an immediacy and sense of discovery with the character it seems. So, is there a good way of switching 1st to 3rd and back at will, and it still sounding right, when you want to feature an exchange between those others than the main character?

 

Hope my question makes sense.

 

Riley

[Nephylim]

Well.... why don't you try giving it a go and seeing how it comes out. The rule of thumb is, I think... if it sounds good to you the chances are it will sound good to others too. Read it out loud... you'll stumble over the places that are clumsy and even if not whoever is listening will tell you if you don't make sense.

 

A lot of my stories are complete experiments... In one I tried writing alternative chapters from the POV of the two main characters. In another I tried expanding that and having lots of different characters adding their perspective randomly. I have tried writing a story where I don't describe any of the characters at all I have tried writing ones where i don't even name one of the characters (that was short and not posted) I have experimented with first third, changing past to present and vice versa. It's all down to ... give it a go and see if it works.

 

Happy writing... and fast too I hope

 

Nephy

[Graeme]

I've written little, but trying to learn. Someone else said that they started writing in a 1st POV, but moved to 3rd as it was better. But 1st POV can add such an immediacy and sense of discovery with the character it seems. So, is there a good way of switching 1st to 3rd and back at will, and it still sounding right, when you want to feature an exchange between those others than the main character?

I think you'll find that what they meant was that they wrote their first story (or stories) in first person, but latter stories have been written in third person. I don't think they meant changing from first person to third person in the one story.

 

In answer to your question, no, I don't think there is a good way to switch between first and third person and back at will. You can try it, but it'll be up to the readers as to whether you've succeeded.

 

If you're using first person, and you want the readers to know about something that happened outside of the protaganist's view, then you'll have to find a way for that protagonist to find out about it. If you don't want the protagonist to know about it, then you probably shouldn't be using first person.

 

Consider the Harry Potter novels. All of them were written in third person. For most of the novels we only see and experience what Harry saw and experienced -- just like with first person. There are, however, a few places where another character takes center stage (eg. When Snape goes to visit someone at the start of one of the later books). Because it was all third person, this felt quite natural. If the novels had been written in first person (from Harry's point of view), then this would have been very jarring.

[Tiger]

Consider the Harry Potter novels. All of them were written in third person. For most of the novels we only see and experience what Harry saw and experienced -- just like with first person. There are, however, a few places where another character takes center stage (eg. When Snape goes to visit someone at the start of one of the later books). Because it was all third person, this felt quite natural. If the novels had been written in first person (from Harry's point of view), then this would have been very jarring.

I think you're right about that. Harry Potter would not have worked in 1st. Mostly it was 3rd limited, but there were dream sequences that were written in which Harry was experiencing what was going on, but this wasn't revealed until he woke up from the dreams. The first example that comes to mind is at the beginning of Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire where Voldemort kills Frank Bryce. I believe this was the same chapter that revealed that someone had killed Tom Riddle Sr. and his parents.

 

As far as a story that does well with blending 1st and 3rd, The Magic of Recluce by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. comes to mind. The parts centered on Lerris are in 1st person past tense while chapters that were away from him were in 3rd person present tense. The story was actually blended quite well and was a good introduction to The Saga of Recluce.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Tiger

[ehyder]

For my own reading, I think that different stories call for different points of view. Sometimes it's fun to see a limited point-of-view where you don't necessarily know everything that there is to know.

 

I seem to have an aversion to first-person when reading: usually it's not done very well, and the voice I hear when I read it is the author's voice and not the character's voice. One thing to be sure you do when writing first person (or limited third person) is to stick to using words that the character would use-- do they call it a shopping cart or a wagon? Are they pants or are they slacks? And then you have to consider whether the character is the type who notices lots of details or pays more attention to the big picture...

 

I feel like a lot of authors don't think about this and lose the opportunity to really give their characters a voice!

 

Off the top of my head, the only example I can think of with an author Doing It Right is Sarah Monette's Melusine series: I didn't even realize that the books were first-person until I complained that there were no good first-person books and my friend pointed out that that series was. So, obviously she did it right.

[Clovis]

You've had a lot of excellent advice... such as to ensure your characters have distinctive characters and stick to them, and you must take the trouble to work, re-work, revise, self-criricise, self-edit.... Many famous writers have spent an entire day on just one sentence to get it 'right'. Thoman Mann springs to mind.

after writing something you think is good, leave it for a week, then read it as if it is new. The mistakes simply leap out at you. even better is to print the story, wait a few days and then read it as if it is a book.

The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell is one of the most famous examples of multiple points of view. each book tells exactly the same story, but from a different perspective... enthralling.

I love writing in 1st person... it is easy to invent tricks for explainng the things the I figure can't have seen. You can have fun almost becoming that character as you write.... but as the others said... try it and see what you like. And it is true there are no rules to follow that will make you a good writer... otherwise everyone would be. Your unique take on life is the spark... go for it.

[Riley Jericho]

You've had a lot of excellent advice... such as to ensure your characters have distinctive characters and stick to them, and you must take the trouble to work, re-work, revise, self-criricise, self-edit.... Many famous writers have spent an entire day on just one sentence to get it 'right'. Thoman Mann springs to mind.

after writing something you think is good, leave it for a week, then read it as if it is new. The mistakes simply leap out at you. even better is to print the story, wait a few days and then read it as if it is a book.

The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell is one of the most famous examples of multiple points of view. each book tells exactly the same story, but from a different perspective... enthralling.

I love writing in 1st person... it is easy to invent tricks for explainng the things the I figure can't have seen. You can have fun almost becoming that character as you write.... but as the others said... try it and see what you like. And it is true there are no rules to follow that will make you a good writer... otherwise everyone would be. Your unique take on life is the spark... go for it.

 

Thanks everyone for all the great perspectives!

Riley

[hh5]

Whats really hard is when someone changes POV - you have to dig around - who is I (james, Mary, Paul)

This why I usually get pissed at the story ... This is why I am so mechanical actually specifying POV

ie John POV

 

I guess as the scene progress - we have to pick up who's the character thats running the scene

 

but if you see I and no other character says Hey Paul .... then I wouldn't know I = Paul

 

its also Hard when "Hey Paul" is like 1/2 way down the scene

 

I am quite literal and specify <John POV> or <Narrator POV> prior to the scene I am writing

[John Doe]

Whats really hard is when someone changes POV - you have to dig around - who is I (james, Mary, Paul)

This why I usually get pissed at the story ... This is why I am so mechanical actually specifying POV

ie John POV

 

I guess as the scene progress - we have to pick up who's the character thats running the scene

 

but if you see I and no other character says Hey Paul .... then I wouldn't know I = Paul

 

its also Hard when "Hey Paul" is like 1/2 way down the scene

 

I am quite literal and specify <John POV> or <Narrator POV> prior to the scene I am writing

 

In third person this isn't an issue but I agree. In first person, there needs an indicaator. Most writers, even bestsellers haven't mastered different voices for their characters (me included and no I am no means a bestseller... I wish! Haha). Sure while reading we can pick out the different personalities but voice for the most parts in many stories are the same and an indicator like hh5 says is a nice thing to have.

[hh5]

In third person this isn't an issue but I agree. In first person, there needs an indicaator. Most writers, even bestsellers haven't mastered different voices for their characters (me included and no I am no means a bestseller... I wish! Haha). Sure while reading we can pick out the different personalities but voice for the most parts in many stories are the same and an indicator like hh5 says is a nice thing to have.

 

Sure but First person makes it very personal

 

Third person ... makes everything so observational ... eyes and ears

 

JKR - if she wrote something in First or third person ... sure I'll be able to pick out dumbledore or snape or harry

but in a high school story - they all seem to be the same

[Graeme]

Third person ... makes everything so observational ... eyes and ears

But I've read stories where I don't even notice that it's third person -- it follows a single character so closely (third person limited) that it's as if I was reading first person, in that I get to see and feel what that character sees and feels.

 

Yes, third person can be stand-offish, but it doesn't have to be. If the author has the discipline to write it as if they were doing first person and sticks to just what that character can see/feel, then it can have the same impact on the reader, with the advantage that you can shift to another person without using any gimmicks to tell the reader that they are now 'following' another character.

[John Doe]

But I've read stories where I don't even notice that it's third person -- it follows a single character so closely (third person limited) that it's as if I was reading first person, in that I get to see and feel what that character sees and feels.

 

Yes, third person can be stand-offish, but it doesn't have to be. If the author has the discipline to write it as if they were doing first person and sticks to just what that character can see/feel, then it can have the same impact on the reader, with the advantage that you can shift to another person without using any gimmicks to tell the reader that they are now 'following' another character.

 

 

I agree. The idea that third person can't be personal is a misnomer. As Graeme has said there are stories out there that are very personal and intimate, even better than some stories told in the 1st person perspective and it's weird because for those stories that I have read they seem perfect in their third person narrative, switching to first somehow changes the tone and it becomes distanced.

 

It's a mistake to believe that you can only be personal with first person and that third person can't be personal. Most writers who first starts out writing think this way and they stick to first person. Perspective, like I have said before, doesn't really matter. It's a small part of the story. It's the craft and prose of execution from the writer that makes a story works.