Star rating system for story chapters

[KYE]

I have noticed people starting to mention the star ratings (usually of others) in the Review section of each chapter. I can see someone mentioning how they rated a chapter in their review, i.e. "thought chapter was great 5 stars", but I think if one wants to discuss the ratings it should be in the forums. So I thought I would start this thread so people, and those reviewers, could actually talk about the star ratings here.

 

I am surpised some seem to think something is sinister if everyone does not rate every Chapter Five stars. I don't agree with that line of thinking because of the way I think of the star ratings. I think of one star as poor, 3 as average and 5 excellent. For me if the Chapter completely knocks my socks off or if I feel it is an extremely important chapter in the development of the story or a character it rates a 5 star. If it is just what I call a "filler" chapter that just advances the story I might think it a 3 or 4 star. If I think a chapter is a "Sex" chapter just for the sake of having sex in the story I probably would not rate it a 5 star chapter. Nor would I if the chapter contained "Graphic" hetero sex (note the word graphic) since that is not my thing and this is a Gay Oriented site. But someone else may rate it 5 because it is their thing, nothing sinister to me about that. I might just not rate the chapter at all or if I felt the chapter is important to the story, such as creating future generation characters, the graphic nature of a necessary part of the story may bear upon my rating.

 

Some people I think would rate ANY chapter a 5 star even if the author recited Humpty Dumpty and Jack and Jill for the chapter. I think that would be as bad as rating all chapters a one star (just my opinion). For those that rate a chapter I am sure they each have a different standard for their rating because there is no way to create a standard for a star rating, it is all arbitrary. For some the story my be ALL about sex, so any HOT sex chapter gets a 5 star and maybe they rate lower or ignore non sex chapters. For those that just skim over the sex chapters because the storyline or character development is more important to them maybe they rate Sex chapters lower. I think when the author can balance out a Sex chapter with important story development then their ability to create a "balanced" chapter should rate high. Some just rate the same no matter the content I think.

 

I think the last Chapter #36 may be a good example as to ratings. Someone in their review thought part of the Chapter was "Creepy" and I think some others might agree with that. I could see were that person may not have given the chapter a 5, even though I have no idea how or if they rated the story. So seeing a 4 average rating for the chapter does not surprise me at all.

 

From looking back over the star ratings for most of the Chapters in Poor Man's Son I see an average of 4 stars. I would think that would be good and be about right from my perspective as a reader and not something sinister nor negative toward the author. I know people had a lot of negative comments about the Will stripping chapter but yet that chapter I think has 5 stars, so I wouldn't think much of a less than 5 star rating and I will admit I did not give the Will stripping Chapter 5 stars but I have given some 5 star ratings.

 

I do not automatically give a chapter a 5 star rating just because I may like the Author's writings. If I did that means I do not take the star rating serious. I realize all authors want people to enjoy their writings and like praise but not all chapters are created equal.

 

So for those that rate a chapter what is your system or thinking behind your rating? As an author do you consider a less than 5 star an insult?

 

I know my comments may seem to be a rambling but wanted to star a conversation about the star ratings and maybe get the conversation out of the chapter reviews.

 

(I would like to also note, comment, that sometimes the ratings seem to be screwed up. Example I logged in to read a chapter once and it stated (you rated 4 stars) beside the stars. I hadn't rated anything or even read the chapter for that matter yet. Not sure if it was browser thing or site thing.)

Edited August 26, 2011 by KYE

[K.C.]

Honestly, I don’t use the star rating at all. If I read something that I feel I want to show the author what I think, I’m going to comment on it. Tell them in my own words what I thought about it, not give a generic 3 stars or 5 stars or whatever number of stars. I want them to know why I like it and what I don’t perhaps like about it. If I feel that my opinion is too strong, I’ll PM the author instead of leaving a negative comment.

 

As an author here, I never even look at the stars on stories, not even my own. I feel that communication and actual discussion about the story is better feedback and more flattering review than a star rating in my opinion.

 

 

[Mark Arbour]

I was pondering whether to let other people weigh in before I voiced an opinion, but I changed my mind, if only because I've got a spare moment or two and this may be my only chance for the next few days. There are basically five ways on GA readers can voice their opinions, and my views on these have evolved over the past months. Here's where they are now:

1. Star Ratings. These are pretty vague. As KC noted, they're not all that instructive for the author. In theory, they could be used to guide other readers to, or away from, a specific chapter or story. In reality, I doubt that really happens. If I'm reading a story (on the main page), then I probably like it, so I'll give the story a 5 (star rating). If I don't like it enough to do that, I won't rate it. On the chapters, if it was OK, I'll give it a 4, and if it was really good, I'll give it a 5. I tend to be overly generous, since I figure that authors do this for free, and there's no reason to be a hard ass.

For my own stories, anything between a 3-5 doesn't bother me. If it's lower, it only bothers me if the person is doing it maliciously. That's what sparked a few of my comments, when I'd note that I'd publish a chapter and it would drop pretty low right after it was posted, then pick up as time went on. That suggests to me that someone sees a chapter posting, clicks on it, and gives it a 1, probably without even reading it. Even then, though, it's not a big deal to me. I mean, it's possible that my engaging personality has alienated people to the point that they'd do that. I don't really worry about those votes having real meaning though, and that's because real readers would take the time to express themselves if I pissed them off bad enough.

2. "Plus" buttons. I use these, and see these as a generic sign of appreciation. To me it's sort of like an internet pat on the back, as if to say "I appreciate you taking the time to write and post." I find this useful in the forums, where you can see if people liked a certain comment or thought, and weigh it accordingly. I also appreciate it when it's attached to a story or a chapter, but in a different way, because this time it's directed at my writing. Plus ratings are good, they're nice, but again, they're not that illuminating.

3. "Like" button on authors or stories. You'd think this one would be the most meaningful of all, but to me, it's the least. I've actually "unliked" some authors that I really do "like", simply because if I "like" a story, I get notifications, Every time an author goes in and edits a story I "like", I get a notification, so if an author is a prolific editor, it floods my e-mail box. I did this to people when I went in and formatted my stories after the move to the new system, and it had to bug the shit out of most of them.

4. Reviews. Some authors live for these. Personally, I like them too, but they're not my favorite medium for meaningful feedback. I got into them when we first moved to the new system, but I've grown to like that format less as we've used it. That's not to say I don't appreciate your reviews. I do. It's just that a review is a one-on-one conversation, and there's no chance for an exchange. You leave a review, and you're done. I leave a response, and I'm done.

5. Forum posts (if applicable). This is my favorite way to get feedback. I love the discussions in the forum. Sometimes I feel good when you all got what I wanted you to get, and other times, it came off wrong. In that case, it becomes a learning experience for me. I get to go back and ask myself what I missed that gave such a different perspective/impression. And you guys are so f**king awesome that you tell me in great detail why you feel the way you do, and that just makes it so much more valuable. Not only that, but it often sparks comments from other readers, and then I get even more info. They also give me a chance to jump in and explain where I was going with something, or to explain my rationale.

A caveat: if you're dealing with a new author, be more generous. Nowadays I can handle a kick or two, but when I first started writing, I was pretty sensitive. It's sometimes tough to find the balance between offering positive feedback while not demotivating the author. That's another reason why I like forum posts, but new authors don't have that luxury.

[Daddydavek]

Interesting perspectives on stars, pluses, chapter reviews, and forum comments. I try to be generous in my praise when I like a chapter or story utilizing the chapter/story reviews. I hit the plus buttons and give 5 stars also for those cases. If I am less than enamored with a chapter or the direction of a story, I try to be gentle or maybe private message the author with my concerns. I post mostly in Mark's forums because he has indicated he likes the feedback there. But sometimes the topics in the forums get a little off into "what if" land or get pretty technical which I find less than interesting. For an established author like Mark, he has a cadre of devotees who care deeply about his characters and get quite involved in their motivations and actions. It seems he has come to realize that and has developed a thick skin and doesn't take the somewhat adverse comments too seriously. I hope that any good author learns to trust their own moral compass in matters and doesn't pay too much attention to the various "polls" whether they be stars, pluses or comments, otherwise their writing will turn out like politics which is completely poll driven and obviously screwed up!

[Matthew k]

When a chapter just comes out and I rate it a five and it doesn't move the rating, I know someone has given Mark's chapter a one to be a shit head. I've never read a Mark Arbour chapter I thought wasn't at least a three, most are fours and some are five, but I've been giving the five just to counter the shit head.

[KYE]

I was pondering whether to let other people weigh in before I voiced an opinion, but I changed my mind, if only because I've got a spare moment or two and this may be my only chance for the next few days. There are basically five ways on GA readers can voice their opinions, and my views on these have evolved over the past months. Here's where they are now:

 

1. Star Ratings. These are pretty vague. As KC noted, they're not all that instructive for the author. In theory, they could be used to guide other readers to, or away from, a specific chapter or story. In reality, I doubt that really happens. If I'm reading a story (on the main page), then I probably like it, so I'll give the story a 5 (star rating). If I don't like it enough to do that, I won't rate it. On the chapters, if it was OK, I'll give it a 4, and if it was really good, I'll give it a 5. I tend to be overly generous, since I figure that authors do this for free, and there's no reason to be a hard ass.

For my own stories, anything between a 3-5 doesn't bother me. If it's lower, it only bothers me if the person is doing it maliciously. That's what sparked a few of my comments, when I'd note that I'd publish a chapter and it would drop pretty low right after it was posted, then pick up as time went on. That suggests to me that someone sees a chapter posting, clicks on it, and gives it a 1, probably without even reading it. Even then, though, it's not a big deal to me. I mean, it's possible that my engaging personality has alienated people to the point that they'd do that. I don't really worry about those votes having real meaning though, and that's because real readers would take the time to express themselves if I pissed them off bad enough.

 

2. "Plus" buttons. I use these, and see these as a generic sign of appreciation. To me it's sort of like an internet pat on the back, as if to say "I appreciate you taking the time to write and post." I find this useful in the forums, where you can see if people liked a certain comment or thought, and weigh it accordingly. I also appreciate it when it's attached to a story or a chapter, but in a different way, because this time it's directed at my writing. Plus ratings are good, they're nice, but again, they're not that illuminating.

 

3. "Like" button on authors or stories. You'd think this one would be the most meaningful of all, but to me, it's the least. I've actually "unliked" some authors that I really do "like", simply because if I "like" a story, I get notifications, Every time an author goes in and edits a story I "like", I get a notification, so if an author is a prolific editor, it floods my e-mail box. I did this to people when I went in and formatted my stories after the move to the new system, and it had to bug the shit out of most of them.

 

4. Reviews. Some authors live for these. Personally, I like them too, but they're not my favorite medium for meaningful feedback. I got into them when we first moved to the new system, but I've grown to like that format less as we've used it. That's not to say I don't appreciate your reviews. I do. It's just that a review is a one-on-one conversation, and there's no chance for an exchange. You leave a review, and you're done. I leave a response, and I'm done.

 

5. Forum posts (if applicable). This is my favorite way to get feedback. I love the discussions in the forum. Sometimes I feel good when you all got what I wanted you to get, and other times, it came off wrong. In that case, it becomes a learning experience for me. I get to go back and ask myself what I missed that gave such a different perspective/impression. And you guys are so f**king awesome that you tell me in great detail why you feel the way you do, and that just makes it so much more valuable. Not only that, but it often sparks comments from other readers, and then I get even more info. They also give me a chance to jump in and explain where I was going with something, or to explain my rationale.

 

A caveat: if you're dealing with a new author, be more generous. Nowadays I can handle a kick or two, but when I first started writing, I was pretty sensitive. It's sometimes tough to find the balance between offering positive feedback while not demotivating the author. That's another reason why I like forum posts, but new authors don't have that luxury.

 

It is interesting to get a couple of author's perspectives on the rating and feedback systems that the site has put into place. Thanks KC and Mark for sharing your thoughts. As for the Reviews I think that the site administrators should change that from "Reviews" to "Comments". Most of what is put in the reviews are not actually reviews at all but instead comments that would fit into the author's forum better. But since most author's do not have a Forum section of their own, the Reviews have become the place for readers to add their 2 cents or comments.

Edited September 4, 2011 by KYE

[KYE]

When a chapter just comes out and I rate it a five and it doesn't move the rating, I know someone has given Mark's chapter a one to be a shit head. I've never read a Mark Arbour chapter I thought wasn't at least a three, most are fours and some are five, but I've been giving the five just to counter the shit head.

 

Whenever I have rated a story I don't think it "moved the rating" as you say either. I would think that it would depend upon how many reader's have rated the story and with how many stars. I would think that if a chapter had several 4's or 5's, even one one star rating wouldn't move it?

 

I don't know if someone is being a shit head as you say, maybe someone just doesn't like a chapter or the story. But if they dislike the entire story I don't know why they would continue to read it. I say this for a couple of reasons.

 

First, St Vincent seems to consistently have higher rep points and star ratings than Poor Man's Son and Millennium had higher rep points than PMS also in the later chapters after the new system was put in place. So I don't think someone is being a shit head to Mark or it would show up in St Vincent I would think.

 

For the second reason I will try to be short but may not be successful and I mean no disrespect to Mark or his writings with the following comments, you cannot please everyone as a writer and should not get an ulcer over it:

 

I get together for dinner once or twice a month with a group of 5 friends, all Gay males. 1 guy is in his early 50's and single, like me, and then 2 couples. One couple is a guy in his 30's and BF in his 40's. The other couple is a guy in his late 30's and his BF is 20/21 and in college. One friend is African-American and the rest of us are white. Early into last year at one such dinners I was asked what I am doing with myself since I have taken early retirement. I told them I had been reading a lot and had found many good Gay stories online. I told them about the story "Millennium" I was reading that dealt with a couple of successful Gay men dealing with their mid-life crisis, the subject of monogamy of gay men and long term relationships, messing around with long term friends sexually, family issues and Gay men raising teenagers, the conflicts Gay's have with religion, Corporate intrigue and other parts of the story. I had to tell my friends where to find the story and they all started reading it. At future dinners it was not uncommon to discuss Millennium and I many times had to answer their questions about things since I had read the entire CAP series and they had not. All 5 of them read Millennium in its total, enjoyed it, and each started reading Poor Man's Son as a continuation of Millennium.

 

Now that background brings me to what I wanted to add. Sometime back in discussion at dinner I realized almost the entire group had stopped reading PMS, I asked why. My friend in is 40's was very out spoken and said something to the affect "If I wanted to read about a str8 guy and the details of him screwing (he used another word) with his girlfriend, I'd just go out and buy a cheap Harlequin paperback novel. I thought this was supposed to be a gay story!" (I've never read a Harlequin paperback, are they that graphic with the str8 sex?)

 

The guy in his 50's said he just felt uncomfortable about reading the graphic nature of a 13 years old's sex life and that that type of story just wasn't for him. At that point my friend in his 30's with the college BF said "Well I still read it." At that point someone said "You would" and we all busted out laughing, including is BF. He got pissed off at us with a few choice words and we all ended up apologizing to him. See he got arrested for having child porn on his computer some years ago. I never knew the exact details but he plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of some sort and is not on any sex offender registry so I think it couldn't have been too bad. But he did end up losing a job he enjoyed over it. I also admitted that I had stopped reading the story over the rape parts of the story and how it was dealt with. But that I was a fan of Mark's and started reading PMS again because I thought it might leave a hole for me when I get to his next story and the one he will surely write dealing with the 911 attack.

 

So out of 6 gay men of varied age that I got to read Millennium, only 2 (including myself) have continued to read PMS after starting it. So from my friends, I can see where if a Gay guy doesn't want to read about a str8 sexual relationship or the graphic sex life of a 13 year old boy they might not enjoy some chapters of Poor Man's Son.

 

Again I mean no disrespect to Mark by relaying this and I am sure many have liked some of the CAP stories more than others as have I.

Edited September 5, 2011 by KYE

[Mark Arbour]

Whenever I have rated a story I don't think it "moved the rating" as you say either. I would think that it would depend upon how many reader's have rated the story and with how many stars. I would think that if a chapter had several 4's or 5's, even one one star rating wouldn't move it?

 

I don't know if someone is being a shit head as you say, maybe someone just doesn't like a chapter or the story. But if they dislike the entire story I don't know why they would continue to read it. I say this for a couple of reasons.

 

First, St Vincent seems to consistently have higher rep points and star ratings than Poor Man's Son and Millennium had higher rep points than PMS also in the later chapters after the new system was put in place. So I don't think someone is being a shit head to Mark or it would show up in St Vincent I would think.

 

For the second reason I will try to be short but may not be successful and I mean no disrespect to Mark or his writings with the following comments, you cannot please everyone as a writer and should not get an ulcer over it:

 

I get together for dinner once or twice a month with a group of 5 friends, all Gay males. 1 guy is in his early 50's and single, like me, and then 2 couples. One couple is a guy in his 30's and BF in his 40's. The other couple is a guy in his late 30's and his BF is 20/21 and in college. One friend is African-American and the rest of us are white. Early into last year at one such dinners I was asked what I am doing with myself since I have taken early retirement. I told them I had been reading a lot and had found many good Gay stories online. I told them about the story "Millennium" I was reading that dealt with a couple of successful Gay men dealing with their mid-life crisis, the subject of monogamy of gay men and long term relationships, messing around with long term friends sexually, family issues and Gay men raising teenagers, the conflicts Gay's have with religion, Corporate intrigue and other parts of the story. I had to tell my friends where to find the story and they all started reading it. At future dinners it was not uncommon to discuss Millennium and I many times had to answer their questions about things since I had read the entire CAP series and they had not. All 5 of them read Millennium in its total, enjoyed it, and each started reading Poor Man's Son as a continuation of Millennium.

 

Now that background brings me to what I wanted to add. Sometime back in discussion at dinner I realized almost the entire group had stopped reading PMS, I asked why. My friend in is 40's was very out spoken and said something to the affect "If I wanted to read about a str8 guy and the details of him screwing (he used another word) with his girlfriend, I'd just go out and buy a cheap Harlequin paperback novel. I thought this was supposed to be a gay story!" (I've never read a Harlequin paperback, are they that graphic with the str8 sex?)

 

The guy in his 50's said he just felt uncomfortable about reading the graphic nature of a 13 years old's sex life and that that type of story just wasn't for him. At that point my friend in his 30's with the college BF said "Well I still read it." At that point someone said "You would" and we all busted out laughing, including is BF. He got pissed off at us with a few choice words and we all ended up apologizing to him. See he got arrested for having child porn on his computer some years ago. I never knew the exact details but he plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of some sort and is not on any sex offender registry so I think it couldn't have been too bad. But he did end up losing a job he enjoyed over it. I also admitted that I had stopped reading the story over the rape parts of the story and how it was dealt with. But that I was a fan of Mark's and started reading PMS again because I thought it might leave a hole for me when I get to his next story and the one he will surely write dealing with the 911 attack.

 

So out of 6 gay men of varied age that I got to read Millennium, only 2 (including myself) have continued to read PMS after starting it. So from my friends, I can see where if a Gay guy doesn't want to read about a str8 sexual relationship or the graphic sex life of a 13 year old boy they might not enjoy some chapters of Poor Man's Son.

 

Again I mean no disrespect to Mark by relaying this and I am sure many have liked some of the CAP stories more than others as have I.

 

 

I took no offense, and I appreciate your thoughts. There's an adage that I have to keep in the back of my mind: You can't please everyone. I get that now with PMS: some people want to read more about Gathan, while others prefer Will. Sometimes I let all of this bother me, but usually I just try to take the feedback I get in a positive way and let it modify my approach if it works with where I want to take the story.

 

The issues the story has raised are interesting to me. The age issue is one that is often viewed as black and white, and ignores the differing development rates of young men as they go through puberty. So how does a guy like that deal with his advanced body? How do other guys deal with him? I think it is more instructive to think about it, than to be judgmental about it. It amazes me that a segment of society that has been so victimized by that trait (judgmentalism) is so often hasty to invoke it themselves. I attribute much of that, though, to the paranoia that most men have to approach the issue with, because, as you noted with your friend, some guys have been burned by it (justifiably or not).

 

The other issue is the addition of heterosex to the story. This takes us to the agonizingly painful argument about bisexuality, which many gay men, in their idiocy, still deny. Some guys, especially young guys, are much more fluid in how they get off. I think it's important to include that in the stories.

 

To answer your other question, if I were to guess why Bridgemont doesn't get dinged while the CAP series does, I think it has to do with the fact that the CAP series is more popular. It has more reads, and a broader audience. That makes it a more visible way to voice "displeasure". From the scuttlebutt, I suspect that whoever is doing this is less concerned about the quality of the story than the fact that he/she can't seem to generate a significant readership. That makes the whole thing more comical than annoying.

 

 

[Conner]

Essentially, I review and use the plus button. It's simple and easy and is always right there when I finish a chapter. I never use the star rating or the like button, can't be bothered. I used to post in the forums quite a bit, but now that's rare - I'm talking about all author forums, not just Mark's. The only exception of late would be Jwolf's forum; I've taken a particular interest in his stories. That will likely fade away as well. I don't have the time to review and post. I prefer to review.

 

That said, my reviews usually do include comments. What can I say; they just come out. Most of my comments are plot related and the author generally avoids responding to them for the obvious reasons. In any case, I believe plot comments are still useful to the author. It's feedback on where the reader thinks the story's going and even where the reader believes the story has been....if that makes any sense. Guessing at the plot is fun for readers; on that score, my batting average sucks. For newer authors, I usually look for something positive to say about the quality of the writing, character development, flow, pacing and dialogue. I particularly enjoy decent dialogue. However, I don't shy away from offering criticism where I feel it's justified. - "stern but polite" would be how I describe it.

[Daddydavek]

Mark has an interesting point about judgmentalism in that the gay community is as guilty of it as any other. I have seen dozens of stories denigrating non-mainstream or kinky gay sex involving bondage, fetishes, trannies, etc. Gay men getting nauseous at the description of straight sex is no more unlikely than heteros getting nauseous at gay sex. A percentage of gay bias against bisexuals is also apparent.

 

I think Mark is more catholic (universal-not roman) in his tastes and sees sex on a spectrum from fully gay to bi-sexual to fully hetero with lots of gradients along the way. I note that bondage, fetishes etc. are also part of the heterosexual scene and the bi scene as well....

 

Having noted all that, I am glad that Mark indicates he tries to follow his own compass. As an author, I think he is interested in being read, but not necessarily in being agreed with 100 percent of the time by his readers. For that I say, bravo!.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Daddydavek

[methodwriter85]

On the age thing, it made me think of something someone wrote to me when I was on online boards back when I was 14 or so years old. They told me that gay adult men can often be pretty uncomfortable around children, because of the way in which gay men get decried as child molestors and pedophiles. So they don't want to act too nice to kids, or else people would get suspicious. Peter Paige actually did a fairly funny movie once called "Say Uncle" about a town that decides that this man MUST be a pedophile because he's middle-aged and friendly to kids and, of course, gay.

 

I wonder if that might behind why some people are just uncomfortable with the Will stuff- the scenes make them feel like a pedophile, regardless of how physically mature Will is, and it reminds them of some pretty harsh judgements they may have gotten from people who thought they just wanted to perve on little boys because they were gay.

Edited September 6, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Daddydavek]

On the age thing, it made me think of something someone wrote to me when I was on online boards back when I was 14 or so years old. They told me that gay adult men can often be pretty uncomfortable around children, because of the way in which gay men get decried as child molestors and pedophiles. So they don't want to act too nice to kids, or else people would get suspicious. Peter Paige actually did a fairly funny movie once called "Say Uncle" about a town that decides that this man MUST be a pedophile because he's middle-aged and friendly to kids and, of course, gay.

 

I wonder if that might behind why some people are just uncomfortable with the Will stuff- the scenes make them feel like a pedophile, regardless of how physically mature Will is, and it reminds them of some pretty harsh judgements they may have gotten from people who thought they just wanted to perve on little boys because they were gay.

 

For many gay men, their worst nightmare is being caught in a sexually compromising position by the authorities, with a hot young 18-20 year, only to find out the kid was actually underage. The thought of extended jail time as a gay man convicted as a pedophile is enough to depress anyones' libido.

[KYE]

The issues the story has raised are interesting to me. The age issue is one that is often viewed as black and white, and ignores the differing development rates of young men as they go through puberty. So how does a guy like that deal with his advanced body? How do other guys deal with him?

 

For my group of 5 Gay friends it was not viewed as a Black and White issue but instead a Legal vs Non-Legal issue. Maybe that is due to the one friend's legal issue with his computer pictures. And the group seemed unanimous that regardless of anyone's maturity in looks it is their ACTUAL AGE that counts. My friend that is in his 50's kept saying "the kid is only 13, not even 14", didn't want to read a story about that, and thought the constant mention of almost 14 was as in his words "stupid".

 

 

As for the bi-sexual issues, just because a bi-guy or str8 guy finds graphic heterosex appealing he should realize that most Gay men may not and should not expect them to. So as an author if you are trying to appeal to the bi reader that is cool but don't expect the Gay guy to enjoy that part of the story, especially if it is graphic. I don't think it is a biased thing, it is just not their thing.

 

Regardless, even though they stopped reading PMS for the mentioned reasons, it did invoke some strong opinions when I asked why at dinner a few weeks ago. So if you wanted your story to provoke conversation about age vs physical maturity and heterosex and a str8 relationship by a bisexual guy, you did with my group of friends and should consider your story a success from that standpoint. (They were kind enough to me to avoid the rape issues by BOTH characters and how the story dealt with them.) But I think you would have found it negative overall in relation to story "Poor Mans Son" due to their decision to stop reading unlike "Millennium".

 

Even though the discussion has veered somewhat from why someone rates a story a certain way and if/how they rate (but I've enjoyed reading the comments made), I think the point is that MAYBE some rate chapters based upon their like or dislike of a certain content with Poor Man's Son, or any story for that matter, and not as a crusade against the author.

 

Also if PMS has a bigger reader base than St Vincent I don't think one person could result in the big difference in Rep points between the 2 story's chapters. Even if you could neg a chapter (which you can no longer do) you could only neg it once. But if someone reads this discussion and all of a sudden the star ratings drop with your story "St Vincent", with fewer readers, then I think the shithead comment may have some validity. As for my friends we did not discuss the ratings provided by the Gay Authors website but instead why they had stopped reading PMS.

 

I am glad you did not take offense to me relaying our dinner conversation about PMS and after reading your comments I wish you could have been at the table that night. It would have been lively and fun for you to have been part of such a conversation and throwing of food would have been frowned upon though, even if cursing is allowed if not loud, lol.

Edited September 6, 2011 by KYE

[Hermetically Sealed]

Personally, if I don't care for a chapter, I just won't rate it. This is especially true if I enjoy the story overall, or the author, and it's just that i found a chapter unfulfilling or off. Iono, I just find it uncomfortable to rate anyone a one. It just makes sense to me that a chapter/story could be well written and interesting but just not be appealing to me, so why punish the author for a matter of taste?

 

As for the age thing. Meh, I don't particularly find 13 year old sex adventures interesting, and yes, hetero sex is definitely not something I want to read. But I can just skip those parts, and problem solved. Yeaah, there were some scenes that made me uncomfortable, mainly because of real world situations I and the local gay youth group have constantly had to deal with, but I get it isn't a black and white situation. My main problem with Will (beyond his personality) is just that, to me, he seems to serve no other purpose in the story but sex. Like he's a stunt cock for Gathan. I don't know, maybe if the story wasn't seesawing back and forth between two narrators with almost completely different plots it'd feel different. Maybe the Tony arc may change that for me, but we'll see.

 

 

The other issue is the addition of heterosex to the story. This takes us to the agonizingly painful argument about bisexuality, which many gay men, in their idiocy, still deny. Some guys, especially young guys, are much more fluid in how they get off. I think it's important to include that in the stories.

I think it cuts all ways really. I have met many straight people who express disgust with gay sex, but still expect gays to enjoy seeing or reading about straight sex. I have several bisexual friends who deny that anyone is absolutely straight or gay, that everyone is bisexual. Oddly enough, it's only the female bisexuals I know who posit this. I honestly can't say I have met anyone gay who has said that true bisexuals don't exist (well, at least they never stated that to me), but I have seen such statements made online so I'm sure they're out there. I will say that i believe such individuals (of all groups) are truly in the minority.

 

It's as you said, though, Mark. You can't please everyone, all the time. I really don't think you should try. All you can do is write the story you want, and if people enjoy it, they do.

 

As an aside, I am sorry for the meandering post.

 

From the scuttlebutt, I suspect that whoever is doing this is less concerned about the quality of the story than the fact that he/she can't seem to generate a significant readership. That makes the whole thing more comical than annoying.

Sounds really petty, too. It's not like reading a story prevents people from reading others.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Hermetically Sealed

[methodwriter85]

As for the age thing. Meh, I don't particularly find 13 year old sex adventures interesting, and yes, hetero sex is definitely not something I want to read. But I can just skip those parts, and problem solved. Yeaah, there were some scenes that made me uncomfortable, mainly because of real world situations I and the local gay youth group have constantly had to deal with, but I get it isn't a black and white situation. My main problem with Will (beyond his personality) is just that, to me, he seems to serve no other purpose in the story but sex. Like he's a stunt cock for Gathan. I don't know, maybe if the story wasn't seesawing back and forth between two narrators with almost completely different plots it'd feel different. Maybe the Tony arc may change that for me, but we'll see.

 

I get that 13-year olds have sex, and believe me I knew lots of 8th/9th graders that were doing it, including 9th graders who were going to clubs and tripping on X, but Will is so much more interesting when he's not having sexual adventures. Will talking about his love of marine life and having Tony talk about BMX biking was a 100 times more interesting and memorable than him stripping in a club, because it was Will as the person with real interests, not Will as the sexually precocious teenager.

 

I think the other thing is, essentially- this is an introduction story. It's about introducing the next generation of Cramptons and Schluters and Hayes and how they all interact with one another. So there isn't a tight, concise narrative thread here like there were with Millenium or The Box. It's more slice-of-life stuff, which makes sense because we're back to following teenagers and not high-powered business executives. Yeah, they're high profile kids with one pursuing the Olympics, but they're still kids, and the day-to-day of going to school and having homework and trying to have fun with your friends all still apply.

[B1ue]

"Introduction" stories don't necessarily exclude concice plots. The first star wars trilogy, for example, was intended as a childhood for the main characters.

 

Besides, it's not like any of the stories, besides "The Box," had all that tight of a narrative. This series is called a Soap Opera for a reason, this season we're focused on the kids, and haven't hit the run up to the series finale just yet.

 

Edit: I don't mean that as a slam, either. I like that this is a Soap Opera. I simply have different expectations when I'm reading a Soap Opera instead of, say, a novel.

[Mark Arbour]

This discussion has been so enlightening and interesting! Thanks so much!

 

Now do you see why I like the forums instead of the reviews?

[Hermetically Sealed]

Now do you see why I like the forums instead of the reviews?

Yeah, the reviews are nice, but the setup doesn't really allow for a dialog, and sometimes that can be useful.