Crave By Litlover

[Reader1810]

I think Liam was just thinking about the difference between having someone around and being alone. I'm sure Nathan's presence could make the apartment feel less empty....

[Reader1810]

Go Alek! Go Alek! Go far away Alek!  ;-)

 

droughtquake, while Itotally agree with what you're saying there, my mind is on your review of chapter 4.

 

Comparing Alek to a sinkhole is awesomely hilarious , but so apropos. Had me   and you were on the mark for the rest of it too, I thought. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Reader1810

[Timothy M.]

droughtquake, while Itotally agree with what you're saying there, my mind is on your review of chapter 4.

 

Comparing Alek to a sinkhole is hilarious, but so apropos. Had me   and you were on the mark for the rest of it too, I thought. 

 

Yes, I loved the sinkhole analogy too. Very apt. 

[spike382]

I don't know what to say anymore, I feel like there's two different stories being published in the site. The story maybe 3 of 4 of us are reading with complex characters facing tough decisions and emotional heartache. And then the other story where Alek is a Saturday morning cartoon villain murdering puppies and beating up "queers" on the weekend for kicks while simultaneously being a closeted homosexual.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out this vehemently negative reaction for a character who, while he made a mistake, hasn't done anything particularly reprehensible. Alek was given an ultimatum and made what he now feels was the wrong decision. This happens, we all make mistakes and have regrets. Perhaps we should actually wait to see how the story unfolds before we attach a bunch of stigmas and faults to Alek that haven't even been shown.

[Headstall]

I don't know what to say anymore, I feel like there's two different stories being published in the site. The story maybe 3 of 4 of us are reading with complex characters facing tough decisions and emotional heartache. And then the other story where Alek is a Saturday morning cartoon villain murdering puppies and beating up "queers" on the weekend for kicks while simultaneously being a closeted homosexual.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out this vehemently negative reaction for a character who, while he made a mistake, hasn't done anything particularly reprehensible. Alek was given an ultimatum and made what he now feels was the wrong decision. This happens, we all make mistakes and have regrets. Perhaps we should actually wait to see how the story unfolds before we attach a bunch of stigmas and faults to Alek that haven't even been shown.

Here, hear

[Reader1810]

I don't know what to say anymore, I feel like there's two different stories being published in the site. The story maybe 3 of 4 of us are reading with complex characters facing tough decisions and emotional heartache. And then the other story where Alek is a Saturday morning cartoon villain murdering puppies and beating up "queers" on the weekend for kicks while simultaneously being a closeted homosexual.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out this vehemently negative reaction for a character who, while he made a mistake, hasn't done anything particularly reprehensible. Alek was given an ultimatum and made what he now feels was the wrong decision. This happens, we all make mistakes and have regrets. Perhaps we should actually wait to see how the story unfolds before we attach a bunch of stigmas and faults to Alek that haven't even been shown.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but my dislike of Alek - and it is very strong - stems from his keeping Liam as his 'dirty little secret'. Liam is a sweet and wonderful person who was treated very poorly by Alek and for far too long. I don't see myself being able to change my mind about where I stand regarding that "relationship". 

[Drew Espinosa]

Between Liam and Alek, I am actually more interested in Alek's story. Why? Because, at the heart of all this, I don't think Alek's choices are based on any malice, they are based on love. The reason he was willing to have a relationship with Liam to begin with, was because he loved (and still loves) Liam. Sure, the relationship had to be in secret, but from what I remember of Unforgivable, before Liam, Alek had never been in a relationship with another man, so to have one with Liam speaks a lot about his feelings for Liam.

 

As for his choice to stay in the closet, it too is based on love; love for his family. I mean, why else would he go through all those lengths to be in the closet, if not because of his love he holds for his family. If he were to come out, he would almost certainly be cut out from people he has known his entire life.

 

Which brings us to Alek's unenviable choice: the love for his boyfriend vs. the love for his family. And I honestly can't blame Alek for the decisions he made, when I consider the choice he faced

 

He is a man with an inner conflict, and that is something worth reading. William Faulkner said it best:

 

The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself.

 

Alek is that quote personified. That is why I am more interested in his story.

[Former Member]

I don't know what to say anymore, I feel like there's two different stories being published in the site. The story maybe 3 of 4 of us are reading with complex characters facing tough decisions and emotional heartache. And then the other story where Alek is a Saturday morning cartoon villain murdering puppies and beating up "queers" on the weekend for kicks while simultaneously being a closeted homosexual.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out this vehemently negative reaction for a character who, while he made a mistake, hasn't done anything particularly reprehensible. Alek was given an ultimatum and made what he now feels was the wrong decision. This happens, we all make mistakes and have regrets. Perhaps we should actually wait to see how the story unfolds before we attach a bunch of stigmas and faults to Alek that haven't even been shown.

 

As I’ve said before, I just think Alek needs to actually fix what he says he’s going to fix before he bothers Liam again.

 

I didn’t like the epilogue for RRS though, so…

[Bucket1]

I don't know what to say anymore, I feel like there's two different stories being published in the site. The story maybe 3 of 4 of us are reading with complex characters facing tough decisions and emotional heartache. And then the other story where Alek is a Saturday morning cartoon villain murdering puppies and beating up "queers" on the weekend for kicks while simultaneously being a closeted homosexual.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out this vehemently negative reaction for a character who, while he made a mistake, hasn't done anything particularly reprehensible. Alek was given an ultimatum and made what he now feels was the wrong decision. This happens, we all make mistakes and have regrets. Perhaps we should actually wait to see how the story unfolds before we attach a bunch of stigmas and faults to Alek that haven't even been shown.

 

Maybe some of us anti-Alek folk have not been as eloquent as we might have been (although I can definitely see him with one of those villain moustaches) the real issue has been highlighted in the last chapter. This is not a case of Liam putting up with the closet for a year and not expressing his dissatisfaction with the relationship. They have broken up several times and Liam keeps taking him back. Nothing changes and then they break up and then Liam takes him back and nothing changes and... it's a sad old story. It is only one mistake but one that is being made over and over again.

 

I agree that Alek's story could be quite interesting but his character is causing grief to Liam and that is what we have heard about. A chapter from Alek's POV could give us a whole lot more but we don't have that yet. Nevertheless, droughtquake is right, he should actually change things and then chat to Liam.

 

One final comment. The repeated bad choices in the hope that, against the evidence, something will improve or the desire to have anyone, even someone who causes you pain, is are not choices I would support. Liam is as big a part of the problem as Alek. 

[spike382]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my dislike of Alek - and it is very strong - stems from his keeping Liam as his 'dirty little secret'. Liam is a sweet and wonderful person who was treated very poorly by Alek and for far too long. I don't see myself being able to change my mind about where I stand regarding that "relationship".

You're not wrong here 1810. Alek's biggest mistake in my mind, and made me glad Liam finally broke it off was that Alek was over the top paranoid about his relationship, and as I've said before, he made Liam second, apparently every time. He made Liam feel less. That was wrong. But just because he did it before doesn't mean he necessarily will again. But IF he does, I promise I'll cheer right along with you. Of course that would be assuming that Liam were to ever give him the time of day again. He might not, and that would be just fine too.

As I’ve said before, I just think Alek needs to actually fix what he says he’s going to fix before he bothers Liam again.

 

I didn’t like the epilogue for RRS though, so…

Oh come on! Alek hasn't gotten half as stalkery at this point as Ren was. I hadn't looked at that story in a long time, so thanks for mentioning it so I could go back and see some of your reviews. You crack me up! I actually had huge issues with Ren at the start of that story. I hated him! I personally did like the epilogue, because I felt Ren had redeemed himself somewhat from the beginning, but I never would have given that dude a second thought in the first place, let alone a date.

 

But shhhh, don't tell Adi I said that

 

Maybe some of us anti-Alek folk have not been as eloquent as we might have been (although I can definitely see him with one of those villain moustaches) the real issue has been highlighted in the last chapter. This is not a case of Liam putting up with the closet for a year and not expressing his dissatisfaction with the relationship. They have broken up several times and Liam keeps taking him back. Nothing changes and then they break up and then Liam takes him back and nothing changes and... it's a sad old story. It is only one mistake but one that is being made over and over again.

 

I agree that Alek's story could be quite interesting but his character is causing grief to Liam and that is what we have heard about. A chapter from Alek's POV could give us a whole lot more but we don't have that yet. Nevertheless, droughtquake is right, he should actually change things and then chat to Liam.

 

One final comment. The repeated bad choices in the hope that, against the evidence, something will improve or the desire to have anyone, even someone who causes you pain, is are not choices I would support. Liam is as big a part of the problem as Alek.

We're going to have to get someone to include a Snidely Whiplash villain in one of their stories Bucket!

 

I agree with you, that Alek has some fixing to do. I'm not even saying that Liam should​ necessarily ever give him a chance again. But even if it's not in the stars for Liam and Alek, I do think a little bit too much has been attributed to him that I'm not seeing just yet. As you mentioned they've broken up more than once before. But, we don't have the details behind all that happened. We have a hint, but we're not sure what happened. However Lit has been pretty adamant that Liam knew exactly where Alek was before they ever were official. What that means for the future, well, I have NO idea yet.

Edited February 3, 2017 by spikey582

[hohochan657]

Only 4 chapters in and already so much heated debate ! Very well done Litlover !

 

I haven't finished reading chapter 4 yet, so let me go and have a look ... :shush: don't tell her, the author, that is ...

 

On a totally different note, a good afternoon wish from Hong Kong, it's just past noon and it is the 7th day of the new Year of the Rooster. Traditionally this is a birthday for all humans - people day - everyone is a year older today ! Happy Birthday all !

[Former Member]

You mean I have two birthdays every year? So now I’m 114 years old? Thanks a lot!  ;-)

[Bucket1]

You mean I have two birthdays every year? So now I’m 114 years old? Thanks a lot!  ;-)

 

You don't look a day over 90...

[Reader1810]

Uh oh, instead of being the big 5-oh this year, I'm really going to be 1-oh-oh. Oh boy...     Oh wells...  

You don't look a day over 90...

See my post above for what you get to look forward to B.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Reader1810

[Former Member]

You don't look a day over 90...

 

I forgot what that was like.  ;-)

[Timothy M.]

I don't know what to say anymore, I feel like there's two different stories being published in the site. The story maybe 3 of 4 of us are reading with complex characters facing tough decisions and emotional heartache. And then the other story where Alek is a Saturday morning cartoon villain murdering puppies and beating up "queers" on the weekend for kicks while simultaneously being a closeted homosexual.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out this vehemently negative reaction for a character who, while he made a mistake, hasn't done anything particularly reprehensible. Alek was given an ultimatum and made what he now feels was the wrong decision. This happens, we all make mistakes and have regrets. Perhaps we should actually wait to see how the story unfolds before we attach a bunch of stigmas and faults to Alek that haven't even been shown.

 

I think there are two reasons the reactions to Alek are so strong. The main one is we're all feeling protective and concerned about Liam. We know he had his heart broken by Alek, because even if he did enter the relationship with open eyes, I'm sure he kept hoping Alek would eventually set their love as his main priority and come out of the closet or at least confront his father about his bigoted opinions. We can discuss whether Liam was stupid to have such hopes, but he loved Alek enough to set his own wants and needs aside for a long time. Obviously, the reverse was not the case at the time. This eventually caused them to break up, probably because Liam gave an ultimatum - but more likely because he told Alek he couldn't do this anymore. IF he had given an ultimatum, who knows what would have happened?

 

My point is we're all on Liam's side and we don't want him to be hurt again. He's extra vulnerable due to his accident, and we know he still has feelings for Alek. So we react like Marty and Corey will do - with anger born from concern and fear of Liam letting in Alek and being once more disappointed and left broken-hearted. If Alek had shown up at the hospital and sad: "I broke up with my girlfriend, I came out to my family, I found someone else to back my garage, I love you and want to marry you," I think none of us would say a word against him. But then this would be a very short story, and not called Choices.

 

The other reason for the widespread Alek dislike is tied to the first part: he's making vague promises, and we don't believe he'll follow through. Or we want to reject the possibility that he does (even if we probably won't change LitLover's mind about the story development). Because if he does then Liam will have to choose between the nice-and-safe Nathan and the man he's loved for a long time. Not an easy choice eh? Someone will get hurt, and because it's easier to wish hurt on Alek, who's brought it on himself by his cowardly behavior, we want Liam to chose Nathan. Therefore we don't want Alek to distract Liam, and everytime Alek pops up, we start screaming like angry kids (birds?): "No, not you! Go away! Get lost!" etc.

 

Hope this helps with your confusion. Or course since Gary the-master-of-redemption is the editor, you'll probably be able to laugh at us in the end, when

 

 

Alek wins Liam back with some heroic act, and Nathan falls in love with someone else, but remains another good friend.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Timothy M.

[hohochan657]

Dear Timothy,

Don't give away the plot line ... ... OR else warn us with a well placed "spoiler alert"

All joking aside, do you think this is where this story is headed ?

Warmest regards,

Hoho

Edited February 3, 2017 by hohochan657

[Timothy M.]

Dear Timothy,

Don't give away the plot line ... ... OR else warn us with a well placed "spoiler alert"

All joking aside, do you think this is where this story is headed ?

Warmest regards,

Hoho

 

LOL, since I'm not editing this story I'm allowed to guess along with the rest of you. And I've been proved wrong plenty of times with such guesses, so I wouldn't trust any of my predictions if I were you.

 

But you have a point, so spoiler alert duly added.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Timothy M.

[Headstall]

I think there are two reasons the reactions to Alek are so strong. The main one is we're all feeling protective and concerned about Liam. We know he had his heart broken by Alek, because even if he did enter the relationship with open eyes, I'm sure he kept hoping Alek would eventually set their love as his main priority and come out of the closet or at least confront his father about his bigoted opinions. We can discuss whether Liam was stupid to have such hopes, but he loved Alek enough to set his own wants and needs aside for a long time. Obviously, the reverse was not the case at the time. This eventually caused them to break up, probably because Liam gave an ultimatum - but more likely because he told Alek he couldn't do this anymore. IF he had given an ultimatum, who knows what would have happened?

 

My point is we're all on Liam's side and we don't want him to be hurt again. He's extra vulnerable due to his accident, and we know he still has feelings for Alek. So we react like Marty and Corey will do - with anger born from concern and fear of Liam letting in Alek and being once more disappointed and left broken-hearted. If Alek had shown up at the hospital and sad: "I broke up with my girlfriend, I came out to my family, I found someone else to back my garage, I love you and want to marry you," I think none of us would say a word against him. But then this would be a very short story, and not called Choices.

 

The other reason for the widespread Alek dislike is tied to the first part: he's making vague promises, and we don't believe he'll follow through. Or we want to reject the possibility that he does (even if we probably won't change LitLover's mind about the story development). Because if he does then Liam will have to choose between the nice-and-safe Nathan and the man he's loved for a long time. Not an easy choice eh? Someone will get hurt, and because it's easier to wish hurt on Alek, who's brought it on himself by his cowardly behavior, we want Liam to chose Nathan. Therefore we don't want Alek to distract Liam, and everytime Alek pops up, we start screaming like angry kids (birds?): "No, not you! Go away! Get lost!" etc.

 

Hope this helps with your confusion. Or course since Gary the-master-of-redemption is the editor, you'll probably be able to laugh at us in the end, when

 

 

Alek wins Liam back with some heroic act, and Nathan falls in love with someone else, but remains another good friend.

 

 

I have NO CLUE where Lit is headed with this... I'm as in the dark as the rest of you...

[hohochan657]

You mean I have two birthdays every year? So now I’m 114 years old? Thanks a lot!  ;-)

  

 

You don't look a day over 90...

  

 

Uh oh, instead of being the big 5-oh this year, I'm really going to be 1-oh-oh. Oh boy...     Oh wells...  

 

See my post above for what you get to look forward to B.

Dear All,

It only means that everyone's birthday celebration is brought forward, hurrah ! We're still as old or as young as our age is normally worked out ...

Hoho

[Timothy M.]

I have NO CLUE where Lit is headed with this... I'm as in the dark as the rest of you...

 

I know - but you can still inspire and influence her.

[Headstall]

I know - but you can still inspire and influence her.

I hope I inspire her, but I don't influence her... at least, not where the story is going... that's ALL her... ........................hehe... I am ready to talk her off a ledge if she ever needs it 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Headstall

[spike382]

Let's see, he lies to his family, allowing them to believe he is straight.  He insists on keeping Liam a secret ( another lie of sorts). After Liam has had enough and gives him his walking papers he gets a girlfriend.(Third lie unless he has told her he is gay.) He takes funding for his shop that is predicated on his being straight. (Lie #4).  Tells Liam he loves him in spite of having a girlfriend. ( Potential to become a sexual cheater in addition to cheating by lying.) Continues to show up in spite of Liam telling him to go away. (At minimum shows disrespect for Liam's feelings. While I would not call it stalking yet, this is how a lot of stalkings, including my own when I was 19, begin.)

 

I hate to say this, and I know this wasn't anything personal directed toward me, but at least part of Alek's experience hits very close to home because it's a reality for a great many people. I'm not out to my family either, as I've mentioned before. Coming out to family is a personal decision that one has to make for themselves, and I definitely don't think it's fair to judge others (me for instance) if they are hesitant to do so due to individual circumstances.

 

Beyond that, I don't think his father had some weird legal condition as part of the loan that Alek had to be straight or there wouldn't be any funding. His father is homophobic, an extremely popular attitude is Russia. Alek has a legitimate fear that if he did come out when he and Liam first got together, it would screw up his fledgling business. I'm not even sure this would exactly be an issue anymore. It depends on if his garage has accumulated it's own clientele or if it's just his father's associates that we're throwing business his direction. If Alek is under the thumb of a bunch of people who place a bunch of weird conditions as to what he does in his personal life as it were any of their business, then he probably needs to get out of that anyway.

 

I'll agree on the stalking if Alek continues to bother Liam over and over again. I didn't take it that way yet because I was under the impression that they hadn't seen or spoken in months before the car accident.

[Kitt]

My comments were not aimed at you or any real person.

My post began intended to be a reply to a post I found offensive. The comments were meant to support my position, but when it came time to quote the offensive missive i could no longer find it. Perhaps that poster thought better of what was said and modified or deleted the part I found offensive. Regardless, I then hit the post button instead of the one I was aiming for. The two are adjacent on this tablet, and I chose to let the comments stand rather than try to correct them from the tablet.

It was never my intention to offend you, or any one else. I think it sucks that you found/find it necessary to remain in the closet. To not feel free to express your true feelings is the ultimate in unfairness. I look forward to the day when the word gay returns to being happy.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Kitt

[Timothy M.]

I hate to say this, and I know this wasn't anything personal directed toward me, but at least part of Alek's experience hits very close to home because it's a reality for a great many people. I'm not out to my family either, as I've mentioned before. Coming out to family is a personal decision that one has to make for themselves, and I definitely don't think it's fair to judge others (me for instance) if they are hesitant to do so due to individual circumstances.

 

I don't think we're judging Alek because he's hesitant to come out to his family. The problem is he let his reluctance destroy his relationship with Liam. Now he seems to regret that, which is fair enough, but if he wants to make a different choice, it's going to be uphill all the way. And telling Liam he still loves him and troubling an already vulnerable guy don't seem quite the right way to go about it to me. But I assume to Alek he's simply trying to show Liam he cares about him, loves him even if they cannot be lovers. That's why I liked him saying he knows he's a selfish prick.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Timothy M.