Posting unfinished stories

[kitten]

Okay, looking at how other people post stories here, I definitely seem to be in the minority so I don't want to seem contentious...

 

Basically, I found with my first ever story that posting chapters of a novel before the whole story is complete makes thing needlessly difficult and risks producing an inferior novel. So ever since then I've not posted the first chapter until the last chapter is complete.

 

In my view there are several problems (see below) to posting chapters before completion and the only possible pseudo-advantages I see in it are 1) feedback from each chapter strokes the ego and gives incentive to complete and 2) feedback during writing may improve the story. Personally, I don't need 1) and surely editors or beta readers can provide 2) without the possible problems listed below.

 

Now, I'm aware that some great writers (e.g. Dickens) have published in installments, and it may well be that they had a third reason to add to the other two above - they got paid by installment and needed the money. However, how many professional novelists nowadays publish chapters of their work before the whole thing is complete?

 

Am I missing any other points that may be real advantages?

 

A good novel is a unified whole and has a structure - not just beginning, middle & end but a defined route, links, themes that lead to the specific endpoint. If it just has various story threads heading in a general direction then even if it has a definite predetermined ending it's just a soap opera, not a novel.

 

As I see it, there are some serious disadvantages of posting before completion:-

 

During the process of writing a long multi-chapter story, the initial plan for the structure may not work out exactly as planned, so it needs changing. Maybe the ending would have been better if some minor character had been given more importance from the beginning. However, if you've posted earlier chapters already you are 'painted into a corner'.

 

Either you go back and withdraw/change the earlier chapters or you 'work around' the problems and end up with a story which is flawed, or at least not as strong as it could have been. Those flaws would not be there (or would not be so bad) if you hadn't posted chapters already, because after writing the last chapter you could have gone back over the whole thing and seen the novel as a whole before posting the first chapter.

 

If you look through the whole novel before you post any of it you can see where maybe you've rambled a little away from the main theme of the story and so 'diluted' the impact. So you go back and trim or cut things to focus on getting the best impact.

 

Alternatively, maybe when you look at the story as a unified whole you see places that need expanding a little so that the reader gets more background on character motivation or other important points in the story. Of course you could stick that information in the last chapters you post, but it is likely that it would have been more elegant if it had been introduced in a more appropriate, earlier chapter.

 

So, why DO people post chapters before the story is completed when it is likely that the final product would be better if they completed it before posting anything?

 

Kit

[NickolasJames8]

Okay, looking at how other people post stories here, I definitely seem to be in the minority so I don't want to seem contentious...

 

Basically, I found with my first ever story that posting chapters of a novel before the whole story is complete makes thing needlessly difficult and risks producing an inferior novel. So ever since then I've not posted the first chapter until the last chapter is complete.

 

In my view there are several problems (see below) to posting chapters before completion and the only possible pseudo-advantages I see in it are 1) feedback from each chapter strokes the ego and gives incentive to complete and 2) feedback during writing may improve the story. Personally, I don't need 1) and surely editors or beta readers can provide 2) without the possible problems listed below.

 

Now, I'm aware that some great writers (e.g. Dickens) have published in installments, and it may well be that they had a third reason to add to the other two above - they got paid by installment and needed the money. However, how many professional novelists nowadays publish chapters of their work before the whole thing is complete?

 

Am I missing any other points that may be real advantages?

 

A good novel is a unified whole and has a structure - not just beginning, middle & end but a defined route, links, themes that lead to the specific endpoint. If it just has various story threads heading in a general direction then even if it has a definite predetermined ending it's just a soap opera, not a novel.

 

As I see it, there are some serious disadvantages of posting before completion:-

 

During the process of writing a long multi-chapter story, the initial plan for the structure may not work out exactly as planned, so it needs changing. Maybe the ending would have been better if some minor character had been given more importance from the beginning. However, if you've posted earlier chapters already you are 'painted into a corner'.

 

Either you go back and withdraw/change the earlier chapters or you 'work around' the problems and end up with a story which is flawed, or at least not as strong as it could have been. Those flaws would not be there (or would not be so bad) if you hadn't posted chapters already, because after writing the last chapter you could have gone back over the whole thing and seen the novel as a whole before posting the first chapter.

 

If you look through the whole novel before you post any of it you can see where maybe you've rambled a little away from the main theme of the story and so 'diluted' the impact. So you go back and trim or cut things to focus on getting the best impact.

 

Alternatively, maybe when you look at the story as a unified whole you see places that need expanding a little so that the reader gets more background on character motivation or other important points in the story. Of course you could stick that information in the last chapters you post, but it is likely that it would have been more elegant if it had been introduced in a more appropriate, earlier chapter.

 

So, why DO people post chapters before the story is completed when it is likely that the final product would be better if they completed it before posting anything?

Kit

 

Well I can't speak for everyone, but some of us have nervous badders and can't wait for everyone to see what we've written. Oh wait..........

 

What I meant to say was, some of us do have several chapters built up but like to release them one or two at a time because of the potential for cliffhangers

[Duncan Ryder]

Well... I can only say why I do obviously. For me it's personal... I'm a recovering writer of fiction...I haven't written for a long time, and I have a terrible track record for starting and not finishing stories. Posting chapters was like drawing my line in the sand, making a commitment to complete it. And I know that if I hadn't been posting EW, if I hadn't had the feedback, I never would have finished it. (Yes, I really am that insecure.)

 

And...i have learned so much from the process of posting. I mean, I've workshopped stories before, and worked with teachers, and poets, and novelists, and critique partners, and editors, and even with an agent ...... but this is the first time I've ever had ongoing input from readers...and it has been and continues to be fascinating and wonderful.

 

I think of myself as writing a serial. I structure chapters deliberately to peak at the end, leaving a question. Its actually a lot of fun... kind of thinking of each chapter as an episode, and it's job is to bring the reader back for more.

 

On the other hand, I don't disagree with what you've said in terms of the story. I think of the final product as a polished first draft ...

[Graeme]

When I started, I posted serialised because I didn't know how it was going to be received. I didn't have confidence in myself (since I was only just starting out) and I needed that feedback (I didn't have beta readers at that point).

 

After that, the main reason I've posted before I've completed a novel is simply because I didn't want the readers waiting that long before they saw anything from me. My last novel took me well over a year to write -- I didn't want people to wait that long before they saw anything from me.

 

Having said that, they've been waiting quite a while since I finished my last novel, and it looks like they'll be waiting quite a while longer, because I want to be several chapters ahead before I start posting, and the whole project is currently stalled -- another reason why it's better to wait. You'll know that it will be finished because it already is!

[C James]

So, why DO people post chapters before the story is completed when it is likely that the final product would be better if they completed it before posting anything?

 

In my case, I both like and need the feedback. I usually post half a dozen or so chapters behind where I'm writing, which does give me the flexibility and time to make changes if need be. So far, I've only had one plot regret (a line I wish i could have changed) from doing so. One of the most common ways I use forum feedback is that if readers are left with questions on some issue (unless it is intentional, which it often is) then I can add a few lines to clarify the issue.

 

I enjoy the feedback from posting a chapter at a time; it means a very great deal to me. I could get the same effect by completing a story and then posting it as a serial, but that would necessitate a cessation of posting while I complete a novel.

 

A further reason is that I'm rather lazy. I post on a schedule (a chapter a week, averaging 6k words though that does vary) and if it wasn't for the pressure of the schedule, I strongly suspect I'd succumb to more writer's block.

 

However; that's just me. I'm very much of the opinion that whatever works for the individual author is the only "right" way.

CJ

[Tiger]

I have decided that my next project will be done before any of it is published. I still would like to serialize, however. I will admit that I need a better posting rate, and I will work to improve it in the future.

[Demetz]

I guess I'm in the minority here...

 

I post chapters as they come, and its not a problem to me if I decide later that something in older chapters needs to be changed because....

 

 

.

.

.

.

.

.

 

>__>

<__<

 

Okay, here goes

 

BIG SECRET TIME

 

>__>

<__<

 

... I'll go back and change it.

 

Sure thats not the nicest thing to do to readers who have been reading along, but hey, its my story.

 

Take Webs for example. I have a structure in mind for it which follows the course of events around some characters, then goes back and follows the course of events surrounding some other characters until the two paths meet, then follows them all. When I'm finished writing for all that I may decide to restructure it so its more linear and if I like it better that way that's how I'll repost it.

[Boy In Doubt]

I guess I'm in the minority here...

 

I post chapters as they come, and its not a problem to me if I decide later that something in older chapters needs to be changed because....

 

 

.

.

.

.

.

.

 

>__>

<__<

 

Okay, here goes

 

BIG SECRET TIME

 

>__>

<__<

 

... I'll go back and change it.

 

Sure thats not the nicest thing to do to readers who have been reading along, but hey, its my story.

 

Take Webs for example. I have a structure in mind for it which follows the course of events around some characters, then goes back and follows the course of events surrounding some other characters until the two paths meet, then follows them all. When I'm finished writing for all that I may decide to restructure it so its more linear and if I like it better that way that's how I'll repost it.

 

I've tried that method too. At the beginning it didn't seem so bad but with my constant need to edit every little thing (typos, continuity errors, etc.) it got exhausting. But to each their own I guess. What works for one writer may not work for the other.

 

And that's why I've been holding back for a while, working on each chapter and not posting unless I'm sure I'm ready to let them go. It's like having a baby. You nourish it, you raise it and when the time's right you set it free. Of course, there are also times when you just want to show it to the world already.

 

Gosh, I'm only 18 and already I'm thinking babies.

[Tiff]

From here on out I plan to post only once a story is completed. I did the whole "posting while in progress" and it just came out a big ol' mess for me. I took long breaks, I lost motivation to write, I lost connection with the story, and couldn't come up with a suitable ending until recently.

 

Sure, completing it takes longer and is more frustrating, especially when you're eager for feedback or encouragement, but at least the story is out of the way and you can post on a regular schedule.

 

But like it's been said already, personal preference matters the most. Whatever works for the author and their creative energy.

[Tiger]

From here on out I plan to post only once a story is completed. I did the whole "posting while in progress" and it just came out a big ol' mess for me. I took long breaks, I lost motivation to write, I lost connection with the story, and couldn't come up with a suitable ending until recently.

 

Sure, completing it takes longer and is more frustrating, especially when you're eager for feedback or encouragement, but at least the story is out of the way and you can post on a regular schedule.

 

But like it's been said already, personal preference matters the most. Whatever works for the author and their creative energy.

Tiff, I believe I have figured out how to combat the need for feedback. There's always writing a short-story, or letting a good friend read part of a chapter for that. Anyway, I have the same goal in my for my next project.

[Razor]

It works for me.

 

I prefer writing as I release. Yeah, in times when I'm insanely busy or stressed my writing goes out the window and I lose my teensy fanbase, but who am I really writing for? Me me me me me me, I'm a greedy bastard, indeed. I like it, and seeing other people enjoy it is just a nice added perk.

 

I publish as I write because it's just more fun that way. It also helps to keep me on track. I just started back writing; if I hadn't had three ongoing stories then I would've never come back to it. Sure, I'm not even half as busy or stressed as I've been for the past year, but it just wouldn't have come to the forefront of my to-do list, y'know? This way it's easier to get back into it after a break.

 

As for an inferior product, I don't think that's true. I think it depends on your writing style more than anything; if you naturally have a story with a ton of weird details and random things, then there's more room for error. Then again, if you're not enjoying writing enough to really have a feel for your story and a willingness to keep your thoughts developed a good way ahead, then exactly why are you writing?

 

 

 

Besides all of that, it also serves as an excellent personal record. If I did the whole thing before I put it up, then I'd have to do draft after draft to fix the inconsistencies in ability. I don't mean to be pompous, but with each and every chapter I get a little better. By the end of a story, the first chapter looks like hell (case in point, Rave Boy's gone until I decide to fix it because it was awful at the beginning and even toward the end). Yeah, I'll probably rewrite it, but in the meantime it's nice to have a little display of improvement.

[Benji]

It works for me.

 

I prefer writing as I release. Yeah, in times when I'm insanely busy or stressed my writing goes out the window and I lose my teensy fanbase, but who am I really writing for? Me me me me me me, I'm a greedy bastard, indeed. I like it, and seeing other people enjoy it is just a nice added perk.

 

I publish as I write because it's just more fun that way. It also helps to keep me on track. I just started back writing; if I hadn't had three ongoing stories then I would've never come back to it. Sure, I'm not even half as busy or stressed as I've been for the past year, but it just wouldn't have come to the forefront of my to-do list, y'know? This way it's easier to get back into it after a break.

 

As for an inferior product, I don't think that's true. I think it depends on your writing style more than anything; if you naturally have a story with a ton of weird details and random things, then there's more room for error. Then again, if you're not enjoying writing enough to really have a feel for your story and a willingness to keep your thoughts developed a good way ahead, then exactly why are you writing?

 

 

 

Besides all of that, it also serves as an excellent personal record. If I did the whole thing before I put it up, then I'd have to do draft after draft to fix the inconsistencies in ability. I don't mean to be pompous, but with each and every chapter I get a little better. By the end of a story, the first chapter looks like hell (case in point, Rave Boy's gone until I decide to fix it because it was awful at the beginning and even toward the end). Yeah, I'll probably rewrite it, but in the meantime it's nice to have a little display of improvement.

 

 

...........I read a couple of your stories, I guess the one I liked best was Somewhere Only We Know. It was frank and real and contained the ever so neccessary 'jerk'.

[kitten]

It works for me.

 

As for an inferior product, I don't think that's true.

 

-----

 

Besides all of that, it also serves as an excellent personal record. If I did the whole thing before I put it up, then I'd have to do draft after draft to fix the inconsistencies in ability. I don't mean to be pompous, but with each and every chapter I get a little better. By the end of a story, the first chapter looks like hell (case in point, Rave Boy's gone until I decide to fix it because it was awful at the beginning and even toward the end). Yeah, I'll probably rewrite it, but in the meantime it's nice to have a little display of improvement.

 

As others have said, whatever works for the writer is fine.

 

However, is the first part quoted above not inconsistent with the last part? i.e. if the writing gets better and the first chapter looks like hell then surely the overall story IS an inferior product because it could be improved by bringing the early chapters up to the standard of the later chapters.

 

Kit

[BeaStKid]

I started posting Alpha and Omega chapter to chapter as soon as I wrote the chapter. Now, though, I have realized that it was a mistake. I seem to never maintain a regular writing schedule and as a result feel bad that I have kept my readers hanging for the time-being.

 

That is why I have decided that after Alpha and Omega, I'll publish only those stories that are complete.

 

BeaStKid

[Razor]

As others have said, whatever works for the writer is fine.

 

However, is the first part quoted above not inconsistent with the last part? i.e. if the writing gets better and the first chapter looks like hell then surely the overall story IS an inferior product because it could be improved by bringing the early chapters up to the standard of the later chapters.

 

Kit

 

 

But you see, that just means that I would get stuck in a never-ending loop. If I waited, then inevitably I would decide to rewrite before releasing. Then, I would look at that draft and be like "Wow, this is shit!" and then want to rewrite. See my point? Yeah, Rave Boy's an exception to my policy but that's because the gap is so huge in it. I started it when I was like fourteen, and I'm almost nineteen now. Of course, I never posted any of it for a long, long time, but that's still a gigantic gap in writing ability. I think it'll end up as one of those exponential equations graphed backwards, if you have any idea what I mean... goes up really crazy fast at first but eventually it just levels off, even though it still keeps getting better; it's just not as drastic a leap.

 

 

ANYWHO, I'm glad you liked it Benji!!! Warning: shameless plug follows. Chapter five of Ana is up and I'm toying with the next one... seemed like most people were interested in that one more than the others... ~shrug~ Just throwing that out there.

[S.L. Lewis]

With me, the story I'm writing now is me testing my skills and getting that feed back to help me grow. Yes, I'm on hiatus but that's because I'm helping a friend with his story, which is due to be published soon and I was also working on a few other things.

As I write, I'm hopefully at least a few chapters ahead of what I'm posting, but I plan on writing out the next story in it's entirerty and the start posting it that way and see which one works best for me.

 

It all depends on what you're writing and how the readers will end up feeling about the story.

[kitten]

But you see, that just means that I would get stuck in a never-ending loop. If I waited, then inevitably I would decide to rewrite before releasing. Then, I would look at that draft and be like "Wow, this is shit!" and then want to rewrite. See my point?

 

I think that perhaps you misunderstood me.

 

Yes, if you try to make it perfect it would be a never-ending loop. However, there is a difference between superior and perfect.

 

To make it superior would require only one or two read-throughs and a few tweaks to take care of certain aspects in the context of the unified whole story once it is complete. At most only a few key passages would require a re-write.

 

I'm not refering to punctuation, spelling or tweaking just to choose nicer words or prettier phraseology (that can be done as part of the writing and later editing process). I mean looking for ways to ensure that a theme or idea is properly and consistently developed at an appropriate pace. Also checking that the way a character has developed is consistent in a natural way with how it was started.

 

For example, suppose two characters meet and/or interact in an early chapter and later as the story develops it turns out that to make a particular point you have the character do something individually or together. Your editor (or beta reader, or you yourself) note that the character's new behaviour is not consistent with how it was introduced.

 

Then there are 3 options: 1) Go back and modify the early chapter; 2) leave the inconsistency; 3) alter the later chapter and possibly lose the impact of the point you are trying to make.

 

Option 1 is impossible (or very difficult) if you've already posted the chapter. The other two options result in a story that overall is inferior to what it might have been.

 

Personally, I don't aspire to perfection, but I believe that readers who give up their valuable time to read my stories deserve the superior version. It would be disrespectful (almost insulting) to present the readers with a version that might be inferior just because I couldn't be bothered to check through the whole story once it is complete.

 

Really, it doesn't take that much extra effort to wait until the story is complete, check for unity of ideas and tweak how certain points to optimise impact. Yes, there is always a point of diminishing returns but I never even approach that. I never go through the story more than twice just to tweak (not usually re-write anything). In fact, in my experience, over 90% of any improvement is done with just one read-through and tweak.

 

Sometimes there is no need for a tweak at all, or the tweak isn't very important. However, there is no way of knowing that until the story is finished and whole so it can all be seen in context. Maybe someone is such a genius that they never need to tweak, but why take the risk? No matter how brilliant I might be as a trapeze artist, I would still prefer to have a safety net.

 

Checking that the complete story before posting is not much extra effort, but it does require more patience. However, I believe that ensuring that the reader gets a superior product is worth it.

 

Of course, you can still post as a serial and still even (if you really want) tweak later chapters in light of readers comments on earlier chapters. Serialisation in posting can have several advantages which I'm sure everyone already knows.

 

I never, ever start reading a story unless I know it is complete. This is for several reasons, but perhaps the main reason is that I don't want to waste my valuable time on a story that may never be completed. No matter how much you trust an author to complete, you can never be sure that something unexpected won't turn up in the author's life to prevent completion.

 

This unpredictability of the future is also another reason why I now don't start posting until the story is complete. If something happened before it was finished then lots of readers would be disappointed. The last five chapters of NAE would never have been posted if my suicide attempt had succeeded. I will never do anything like that again, but there are lots of other things that could prevent me from finishing a story.

 

Kit

[BeaStKid]

Kit, something that I do with Alpha and Omega about inconsistencies is try and not make them by making sure that I am well versed with all the facts that I am referring to.

 

I write a story synopsis of the whole plot and then write a chapter-wise synopsis of the scenes before beginning to write the story. That prevents me from going astray and putting in inconsistencies.

 

 

BeaStKid

 

P.S

Touch-wood, I have never encountered or have been notified of any inconsistencies in my plot till now and in fact have even been complimented by one of my readers regarding that.

[kitten]

Kit, something that I do with Alpha and Omega about inconsistencies is try and not make them by making sure that I am well versed with all the facts that I am referring to.

 

I think that factual inconsistencies are less of a problem than more subtle inconsistencies in how a character behaves. Believable characters have realistic personalities and their behaviour has to be consistent with their personalities.

 

Now if your story is mostly plot-driven then the problem is less likely to arise. However, if the story concentrates on the development of a character's complex personality then there is a potential for inconsistency to creep in. When you are writing about a relationship with two complex personalities then their realistic interactions can be very complex indeed. Furthermore, if you are following those complex personalities over several years of their lives their personalities need to develop realistically.

 

Sometimes it is possible to start a story with a couple of complex characters and as your mind models their interactions realistically they almost develop a life of their own, and by the middle of the story it may be that there is no realistic way they will get to the sort of ending that you were aiming at. So you may need either to tweak some earlier parameters or modify your proposed ending. Think of it as being like computer modelling of a physical system.

 

As has been said all along, what works for some authors may not work for others. It depends on the personality of the author and the sort of stories they write.

 

All I can say is that it certainly doesn't work for me and I'm yet to be convinced that posting before completion does not at least risk producing an inferior product. Also, for reasons mentioned above, I would never start reading (even as a reviewer) any story that hadn't been completed. Am I really unique in that?

 

Kit

[BeaStKid]

I think that factual inconsistencies are less of a problem than more subtle inconsistencies in how a character behaves. Believable characters have realistic personalities and their behaviour has to be consistent with their personalities.

 

Now if your story is mostly plot-driven then the problem is less likely to arise. However, if the story concentrates on the development of a character's complex personality then there is a potential for inconsistency to creep in. When you are writing about a relationship with two complex personalities then their realistic interactions can be very complex indeed. Furthermore, if you are following those complex personalities over several years of their lives their personalities need to develop realistically.

 

Sometimes it is possible to start a story with a couple of complex characters and as your mind models their interactions realistically they almost develop a life of their own, and by the middle of the story it may be that there is no realistic way they will get to the sort of ending that you were aiming at. So you may need either to tweak some earlier parameters or modify your proposed ending. Think of it as being like computer modelling of a physical system.

 

As has been said all along, what works for some authors may not work for others. It depends on the personality of the author and the sort of stories they write.

 

All I can say is that it certainly doesn't work for me and I'm yet to be convinced that posting before completion does not at least risk producing an inferior product. Also, for reasons mentioned above, I would never start reading (even as a reviewer) any story that hadn't been completed. Am I really unique in that?

 

Kit

I agree with you, Kit. And that is where beta-readers come in. While I am editing/beta reading for some of my authors, I always keep in mind how the character's personality is or is developing and point out anything that would be uncharacteristic of that character.

 

As far as reading only finished stories are concerned, I am with you on that. I agree that the assurance that the story is finished is a lot better than waiting for that story to be completed a year later. There are a few exceptions I make, though. CJ, Shadowgod and dkstories are some of them. I read their ongoing serials because I know (and hope) that they would not abandon the story midway like some of the authors do.

 

So, no, you're not unique in that.

 

BeaStKid

[steph]

Also, for reasons mentioned above, I would never start reading (even as a reviewer) any story that hadn't been completed. Am I really unique in that?

I prefer to read stories that are completed. Unfortunately, I also prefer multiple chapter stories, so I mainly skip short stories and poems. Most of the times where I've run into problems with WIPs were on sequels. And that let me to realizing that in order to participate in discussions here on GA, I needed to read serialized stories. I've also found that I need to risk reading an unfinished story in order to support the budding authors here on GA.

[kitten]

I prefer to read stories that are completed. Unfortunately, I also prefer multiple chapter stories, so I mainly skip short stories and poems. Most of the times where I've run into problems with WIPs were on sequels. And that let me to realizing that in order to participate in discussions here on GA, I needed to read serialized stories. I've also found that I need to risk reading an unfinished story in order to support the budding authors here on GA.

 

I wouldn't dream of criticising what other people read or how they read it. As for myself, nowadays I never read poetry because, with very few exceptions (e.g. The Road Not Taken, Paradise Lost), even the works of acknowledged great poets do nothing for me. That is, I acknowledge, a deficiency in myself and not a deficiency in poetic literature.

 

There appear to be lots of completed multi-chapter stories on GA (I have three here!) that could be a basis for those, like myself, who want to take part in discussions but read only complete stories. For example, I made a contribution to the discussion on 'Mike and Winston' by Corvus.

 

Fortunately, GA has such a wide variety of discussion forums and topics that even someone with such odd views as myself can find plenty of discussions in which to take part.

 

You raise the interesting point about supporting budding authors, and that also highlights the diverse nature of GA. As I (a newcomer here) understand it, GA has many functions apart from support for budding authors. Is it not also a sort of showcase for more established authors who hopefully do not need quite so much support? So maybe we should expect a higher standard from them than we do from beginners? Maybe it is more reasonable to expect an established author to complete a story before posting?

 

Also, I appreciate that there are two major types of support for budding authors - encouragement and practical suggestions. Obviously they need both, but maybe one should take care not to avoid giving good advice just because one is afraid of seeming to be discouraging.

 

Presumably the editor and beta readers take care of most of the practical suggestions as well as some of the encouragement. Hopefully by the time a story is posted publicly most practical and stylistic matters will have been taken care of by editor and beta readers. Yet how can even the editor and beta readers comment an the overall quality of the story (e.g. does the ending justify it) if they've not read the whole story?

 

If the editor and beta readers have done most of the 'practical' comments then we general readers need concern ourselves mostly with the encouragement. If not, then are the authors not just using us general readers as additional beta readers? Maybe that is acceptable for beginning writers but isn't what I'd expect from Hosted or Shared Hosted authors.

 

Then there is the question as to at what point a story is good enough to release in public. Personally, until I've completed a story I can't be sure it's going to be good enough to be offered to the general public readership. Certainly it would be arrogant of me to automatically assume that it will be good enough when I've only got a handful of chapters completed.

 

It is probably a difficult balance to decide when an author is 'budding' (needs encouragement) and when they are advanced enough to have more expected from them. It is another difficult balance to decide when encouragement becomes ego-stroking, and when criticism becomes discouragement. I suspect that I might not be very good at such balancing acts, which is yet another reason why it's best for everyone if I don't read, and so don't comment, on unfinished stories.

 

Kit

[Duncan Ryder]

Also, I appreciate that there are two major types of support for budding authors - encouragement and practical suggestions. Obviously they need both, but maybe one should take care not to avoid giving good advice just because one is afraid of seeming to be discouraging.

 

Presumably the editor and beta readers take care of most of the practical suggestions as well as some of the encouragement. Hopefully by the time a story is posted publicly most practical and stylistic matters will have been taken care of by editor and beta readers. Yet how can even the editor and beta readers comment an the overall quality of the story (e.g. does the ending justify it) if they've not read the whole story?

 

If the editor and beta readers have done most of the 'practical' comments then we general readers need concern ourselves mostly with the encouragement. If not, then are the authors not just using us general readers as additional beta readers? Maybe that is acceptable for beginning writers but isn't what I'd expect from Hosted or Shared Hosted authors.

 

Then there is the question as to at what point a story is good enough to release in public. Personally, until I've completed a story I can't be sure it's going to be good enough to be offered to the general public readership. Certainly it would be arrogant of me to automatically assume that it will be good enough when I've only got a handful of chapters completed.

 

It is probably a difficult balance to decide when an author is 'budding' (needs encouragement) and when they are advanced enough to have more expected from them. It is another difficult balance to decide when encouragement becomes ego-stroking, and when criticism becomes discouragement. I suspect that I might not be very good at such balancing acts, which is yet another reason why it's best for everyone if I don't read, and so don't comment, on unfinished stories.

 

Kit

 

 

You know, as a shared hosted author who was invited to this site, and invited to be shared hosted I really don't feel I should have to justify the way I post. Discuss yes, I'm happy to do that, but not justify. So I hope the powers that be at GA don't consider changing expectations for hosted and shared hosted authors.

 

Writers make contracts with their readers. My contract, like others here, is different from yours. I write serial. I deliver new chapters when they're ready. I work hard to polish each chapter as I go along. I enjoy it. I think my readers do to (or they can stop reading!) If someone wants to read only a finished story, they can read a finished story -- make sure the last chapter says "the end" or buy a book. If they don't want to comment til it's done, no one asked them to.

 

All I can say is, I have had literally thousands of emails from guys (and women) all over the world on my first story, people who have laughed and cried with my characters, and some of whom have made me laugh and cry.... and they mean a lot to me, and they kept me going, and sorry, but that's my business. and my relationship with my readers. Yes, I had a whole different flurry when it was finished... and I'm good with all that too.

 

They're our stories. We put them out there, for our own reasons, for others to read and share. We get nothing back but reader response. However it works for each of us and our readers deserves to be respected.

 

I am one of the most non confrontational people about... but there. I said it. I'll just go away now...

 

duncan.

[old bob]

Hi all authors

I'm a reader, and a reader only.

IMO, they are great differences between stories, written as a whole (either short stories or stories with a few chapters), underlining the progression of the story, and serials written like the old "feuilletons" (that's the french word for serial) published daily in the back pages of newspapers.

It's the right of the authors how to publish their stories. Their criterion should be the impact on the readers and not the appeal of comments from the readers !

If the author needs a feedback to be able to write, he just show his incertainty about the value of his work .

Serials with a cliffhanger at the end of each chapter have to be brought chapter after chapter, even if we have to wait "weeks" between two chapters, increasing the pleasure to read with the pleasure to wait and to comment what could happen next !

So is entirely the choice of the author, depending of his intentions to impress the reader.

Both choices are right. We have in GA perfect examples of both, thanks to the diversity of authors and stories.

Unfortunately I'm not able to write stories in English (It's not my mothertongue). The stories and other texts I write in French, I do it first for my own pleasure. If my Beta-readers (only close friends and family members) like them enough to suggest a publication, I never followed them in a first step, because my main question was : " Why should my stories interest people who don't know me well ?".

Old bob

[NickolasJames8]

There appear to be lots of completed multi-chapter stories on GA (I have three here!) that could be a basis for those, like myself, who want to take part in discussions but read only complete stories. For example, I made a contribution to the discussion on 'Mike and Winston' by Corvus.

 

Fortunately, GA has such a wide variety of discussion forums and topics that even someone with such odd views as myself can find plenty of discussions in which to take part.

 

You raise the interesting point about supporting budding authors, and that also highlights the diverse nature of GA. As I (a newcomer here) understand it, GA has many functions apart from support for budding authors. Is it not also a sort of showcase for more established authors who hopefully do not need quite so much support? So maybe we should expect a higher standard from them than we do from beginners? Maybe it is more reasonable to expect an established author to complete a story before posting?

 

Well, depending on whose perspective you look at things through, most of us are beginners. I certainly don't consider myself to be a pro at all. I'm certainly willing to help newer authors, but in my opinion, I'm still learning too. That's not why I release my chapters one at a time, but I think it's important to point out that in our own way, I think we're all still 'budding' writers. In fact, I'd argue that even those who are seasoned and 'established' still learn something new from time to time.

 

Also, I appreciate that there are two major types of support for budding authors - encouragement and practical suggestions. Obviously they need both, but maybe one should take care not to avoid giving good advice just because one is afraid of seeming to be discouraging.

 

I don't take suggestions from my forums. If someone offers me an opinion, that's fine. I have beta readers and an editor to tell me what I'm doing wrong and doing right. As a matter of fact, before I started posting If By Chance, I made it a point not to read the discussion topic for a story I had in progress. That's the easiest way for me to be influenced by my readers about which way to take the story, which would ruin the art of crafting the story for me. In the end, my readers would be the ones who would suffer.

 

Presumably the editor and beta readers take care of most of the practical suggestions as well as some of the encouragement. Hopefully by the time a story is posted publicly most practical and stylistic matters will have been taken care of by editor and beta readers. Yet how can even the editor and beta readers comment an the overall quality of the story (e.g. does the ending justify it) if they've not read the whole story?

 

That's a chance we take as authors. I'd only be willing to pour my heart and soul and time into a story if I owned the plot from start to finish, without taking direction from others. All I can do is hope that my readers enjoy the story and think that it was worth their time to read.

 

If the editor and beta readers have done most of the 'practical' comments then we general readers need concern ourselves mostly with the encouragement. If not, then are the authors not just using us general readers as additional beta readers? Maybe that is acceptable for beginning writers but isn't what I'd expect from Hosted or Shared Hosted authors.

 

I think the purpose of the reader forums is for the readers to talk about the story, speculate what might happen, and have fun with the process. When Dom Luka was writing Dessert Dropping, we (the Domaholics) separated into camps depending on who we wanted the so-so cousin to wind up with and who we wanted the main character to end up with. It was fun, and the story had its own life. We probably wouldn't have enjoyed ourselves as much if all 35 chapters had been released at once. The story would have been great, but the experience wouldn't have been the same.

 

Then there is the question as to at what point a story is good enough to release in public. Personally, until I've completed a story I can't be sure it's going to be good enough to be offered to the general public readership. Certainly it would be arrogant of me to automatically assume that it will be good enough when I've only got a handful of chapters completed.

 

Well, I consider the story ready to roll when I can read the first chapter and not want to vomit. If I get flames, I'll know I was wrong. If not, then I can assume I did something right

 

It is probably a difficult balance to decide when an author is 'budding' (needs encouragement) and when they are advanced enough to have more expected from them. It is another difficult balance to decide when encouragement becomes ego-stroking, and when criticism becomes discouragement. I suspect that I might not be very good at such balancing acts, which is yet another reason why it's best for everyone if I don't read, and so don't comment, on unfinished stories.

 

Kit

 

 

I can agree with that statement, and while GA has its own method of sorting that out, I think that in the end, the individual author has to make that call for themselves. Some authors think they're already there, and that's cool. I think I have a lot to learn still, and hopefully I can keep learning. I have 5 finished chapter stories and 9 short stories posted, so in case anyone doesn't want to read an unfinished story on my page, they have options.