Editors and Beta readers

[Adam Phillips]

Seems to me that the contents of the last two posts say basically one thing - that only PROFESSIONAL editors should be engaged, and the rest of us should stay out of the creative process.  

 

What both of you gentlemen need to keep in mind before casting aspersions on potential editors is that NO ONE was born knowing the craft, EVERYONE should be learning and furthering their craft every day, and insulting people who try their best to be helpful benefits no one, most especially the pool of willing help who volunteer their time and effortI

 

I understand what you're saying. And I'm not going to say that ONLY professionals should help.

 

But I've seen far too many times at this site and others that those who want to help aren't always helpful. And then you're not giving anything to the author. The fact that no one is born knowing the craft goes to the very heart of my suggestion: If your editor can't tell the difference between a gerund and an adverb, then there's nothing that an author's going to learn from him, and he WON'T be furthering his craft. And there are too many volunteer editors that exemplify that ignorance.

 

What I was saying was that editors need to know the mechanics of the English language exceptionally. And they need to have some sense of what makes for strong narrative writing. In that order. If they can demonstrate that they do, and they're not professionals, by all means use them. But a writer needs to beware. Not all volunteer editors out there are going to help them further their craft.

 

I was also saying that there are plenty of editors out there--and I'll concede they need not be professional editors--who are exceptional at what they do, and they can demonstrate it. An author can afford to be patient, discerning, and selective. And everybody's aware that volunteers volunteer their time. But the fact that it's free doesn't mean an author can't want it to be top-level in quality. And it's not all top-level in quality. We could make the same obsevation about the site's writers. Most of them volunteer, but that doesn't mean their writing is any good. I'm only saying that just as we hope for quality from the authors--and just as we demand it from our signature writers--quality considerations also apply to editors. Maybe we should have a Signature Editor category, or some sort of categorization system for editors.

 

And as for insulting editors with this post, I'd think the editors who exemplify my two criteria--exceptional competence in the mechanics of language and a solid sense for what makes for good narrative writing, in that order--also know that they're competent in those areas and aren't the least bit insulted. For the others, a "shoe fits" thing comes to mind.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Adam Phillips

[Aditus]

I didn't understand it like that. When even I can see blatant mistakes in 'edited' stories, there must be something wrong. Of course nobody was born as an editor (although there must be some inclination to nit-picking right from the start), but if somebody would admit they were learning the craft they could be accompanied by an experienced editor for a while. Maybe?

[Sasha Distan]

And as for insulting editors with this post, I'd think the editors who exemplify my two criteria--exceptional competence in the mechanics of language and a solid sense for what makes for good narrative writing, in that order--also know that they're competent in those areas and aren't the least bit insulted. For the others, a "shoe fits" thing comes to mind.

 

And for all those wonderful people who are learning, gaining better knowledge and volunteering their time for free but might be less than fully confident in the face of your onslaught? What exactly are you saying about them and those of us whom they work with?

Without volunteers nearly everyone on this FREE site would be royally screwed. Maybe you should remember that, because we're not all as "lucky" as you to have - oh no wait, you don't have any editors listed for your stories. Some of us need these volunteers with their "less than perfect" skill set.

[Cia]

All right everyone. Please take a breath, take a step back, and remember everyone has their own opinion. I'm addressing site authors, beta readers, editors, pretty much everyone involved in our writing community and I hope my comments will be taken in the light I'm sharing them. I'm going to repeat this: Everyone has their own opinion. This is particularly true when it comes to writing. For many on GA it is a passion. Don't take that passion the wrong way and assume comments made in generalities apply to you specifically. Louis' questionnaire is very simple and can identify areas an editor is strong and places where they are weak. Here on GA we make the distinction between an editor and a beta reader, but in the publishing world you typically find the line is drawn between content and line editors. All we're trying to do is steer site editors in directions they can be helpful and explain areas they might need to brush up on. We're not rejecting ANYONE, but if an author says they need help learning where to add or drop commas, we don't want to pair anyone up with them that isn't solid on that area.

 

No one is great at everything. Most of the authors I help now, or in recent months, acknowledge that I'm pretty thorough. But you can see from my early work, and even things I wrote this time last year, my ability to edit has been, and remains, a process of evolution. I started not knowing how to punctuate dialogue, and yet back then I was a beta reader for others. Did I touch their punctuation? No. But I could ferret out plot flaws, timeline errors, and question character motivations as easily as I do now. As I wrote, and beta read, I researched writing topics and grammar rules constantly when I came across a problem I knew was wrong instinctually but couldn't quote the rule for.

 

Most of us learn by doing. I never want to discourage ANYONE who volunteers to work with an author from helping in some capacity. What I would like to see from editors is their knowledge with regards to the rules when they do edit. Especially with a new author, or one who needs to review basic grammar rules, I try to make the change and then add the rule in the comment. When I receive an edit the professional editors I've worked with do the same thing. How does this solve the problem Adam brings up? It shares the burden of knowledge and expertise between the author and editor.

 

When the author makes a mistake, and they don't know they're making this mistake, the editor should try to educate them. Don't just make the change, explain the reason for the change. Cite your source if you have it. 'Per CMoS' (Chicago Manual of Style) or 'BBoG' (Blue Book of Grammar) or per 'MW' (merriam-webster dictionary) for example. The author should then, ALWAYS, verify that information. In the end, if they're going to simply take the editor at face value and not do their homework the flaws are their fault. Of course, if you work with someone or have seen their work has high quality as Adam mentions, you might be safe doing that... but I never, ever recommend letting your team do your work as the author striving to produce the best story possible.

 

GA is a wonderful place for authors. It's a wonderful place for readers who, like me, can't read a story they really like without wanting to make it better. I never want that to change. The close knit community is a great boon to everyone. I really hope that a differing view about titles, or responsibilities associated with those titles, will not prompt members to do anything rash to change that.

[LJH]

It's that time to let me know if:

 

1. You are willing to assist writers

2. You still wish to be active as an editor

3. You are currently available to beta and or edit for new requests.

 

 

GA has a large pool of editors and beta readers. I would love to hear from all those who are currently active on the site. I do understand that there are some who have not been active for some time and will probably not respond to this post.

 

Some editors and betas only assist one writer, I would like to see these editors step forward to help others.

 

I will get the ball rolling.

 

I am Willing to assist writers

I do wish to be regarded as active.

I am able to assist with new requests, however I currently edit for three GA writers and also edit on a professional level. If I take on new requests the turn around time is one week. I do not edit on weekends and I do not accept first or second drafts.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to all our active editors and Beta readers.

 

 

Kindness

 

Folks, please stick to the original request of this post.  Discussions about what writers should seek from an editor should be made elsewhere.  The original post was made in the hope that members of GA will step forward to assist writers.  You can be professional, or self taught or willing to give it a try.  You might be an editor or a proofreader.  We need you.  

[rustle]

beta/editor available here for short term spot work

 

i'll let you decide if I'm any good or not

[Sasha Distan]

beta/editor available here for short term spot work

 

i'll let you decide if I'm any good or not

 

He's good. I know this.

[thaddeus2]

Ok. Throwing my hat into the ring.  <gulp>

 

I'm willing to assist writers. Since this is my first time at this, I think being a beta reader would be most appropriate. I can offer some grammar assistance and can definitely offer spelling assistance. Although I'm not a professional editor, I have what I believe is a generally good grasp of grammar. (Anyone need me to diagram a complex sentence?  ) 

 

My turnaround time will usually be two to three days. 

 

I'm probably best with scientific-related genres and college stories but I'm willing to work with any author if they think I could help. As much as I love rural stories, I don't know much about farm life. (I'm not familiar with large city life either.)

 

Contacting me by email is best.  

[LJH]

Thank you Thadeus!

[joann414]

Thanks so much   all help appreciated.

[thaddeus2]

I hope this isn't too far off topic but I found a website giving a writer's answer to "What is a Beta Reader?" for that writer. [Of course, all writers are different so each writer might have a different list.] I just thought others might be interested in what was said.

 

http://wordservewatercooler.com/2013/07/26/what-is-a-beta-reader-and-why-do-we-need-them/

 

 

thaddeus2

[LJH]

I hope this isn't too far off topic but I found a website giving a writer's answer to "What is a Beta Reader?" for that writer. [Of course, all writers are different so each writer might have a different list.] I just thought others might be interested in what was said.

 

http://wordservewatercooler.com/2013/07/26/what-is-a-beta-reader-and-why-do-we-need-them/

 

 

thaddeus2

This is true.  Thanks for the post.  Interesting. 

[RolandQ]

I am Willing to assist writers.  I am a writer and have a good grasp of grammar and punctuation.
I do wish to be regarded as active. 
I am able to assist with new requests.  I will reply with turn around time when I have an idea as to the length of the work and my own volatile schedule.

 

I'd like to contribute to the community and support other writers.

 

Roland 

[LJH]

Hi Roland

 

Would you be interested in Beta reading or editing or both?

[nostic]

Guess I should have done this a long time ago.

I'm willing to assist writers.

I want to be active for a while, that is till I find a job.

I both beta read and edit at the same time. I'm not anything professional but I try my best.

Right now I'm working with one author, so I'm pretty free. 

My turn around time varies from hours to weeks depending on my mood and schedule. If you want it at a certain time, give me a deadline.

I'm not picky, however I do mind m/m-f/m scenes, so if you have them a lot in your stories, sorry I can't help. I really skip those parts.

I work better with emails.

 

And I said too much

[Kev de Cauchery]

It's that time to let me know if:

 

1. You are willing to assist writers

2. You still wish to be active as an editor

3. You are currently available to beta and or edit for new requests.

 

Hey.

 

1. I am willing to assist writers. I'm a writer myself and I did post my stories on GA before. I can definitely beta read and do simple editing for writers

2. I just came back to this site about two days ago, but I'd like to be considered active.

3. I'm not currently beta reading or editing for anyone at the moment. I do prefer to work with one story at a time though.

 

My preferences will be shorter works, short stories or novella. It's only because I feel like I can have a better grasp at the story if I get to read it the whole way through in one setting.

Also, I'd prefer it the work is not urgent. I can definitely finish beta reading / simple editing in a week's time.

 

My background is Chinese, but I do like to think of myself as competent in grammar. I'll admit though that I'll be quite useless in spotting the incorrect prepositions.

 

Preferences for genre will be contemporary. I'll be useless for historical. I'm alright with sci-fi/fantasy, I suppose.

 

Anyway.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Kev de Cauchery