Reviews and Five Star Ratings...

[Kitt]

16 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

I wasn't talking about you. LOL

Nor I you.  

 

Personally, I think that the fact a reader keeps coming back every time an author posts anything speaks volumes. Means way more to me than any star could.

[kbois]

41 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

I disagree.

If errors are not pointed out, how is an author to improve? I cringe when I read reviews claiming a story's well written when I just covered it in red with my imaginary editor's pencil.

 

39 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

I disagree again. I fail to understand the fixation with offering criticism in PM. The story's public, so should the commentary. If someone can't handle the heat, they should get out of the kitchen

I'm happy you disagree with me. My husband does it all the time too. 🤣

I guess as a newer author I  can see both points. Somermtimes it's too complicated and mind numbing to try to leave a review while sorting out all the nuances of a particular writer. 

Are they new to writing? Do they respond to story comments without taking offense? Do they fix things that need to be fixed as far as technical things go? 

Everyone reacts differently to criticism. I, for one don't see the point of getting upset at it. 99% of the time readers use it constructively. For those who are being just plain mean or petty... screw 'em. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and unless the critiquer is violating the policies GA has established then the author can either love it or list it as they say on TV. 

[Headstall]

8 hours ago, James K said:

I looked at the first review for you by @centexhairysub that I found, it was for Larkspur: A Sidewinder Tale and rated four stars. It was a glowing review and recommendation to read it, so I easily understand how you would love this review. You say that one day you hope to get five stars from @centexhairysub, but how? 

As in the other review I looked at randomly, how might you earn that fifth star, by pure hazard? Because once again there is nothing stated to explain why your story falls short. It doesn't seem to bother you as an author, unlike the author mentioned at the beginning of the thread. I have to say, it would bother me to get such a glowing review that was rated only four stars. I don't know, but might assume, because you are a very popular author and get lots of five star reviews, it isn't very important. Imagine it's your first story, you have a handful of readers, you get one review, that review and what was lacking with the story to not get five stars, becomes much more important?

Hey, James. Since you quoted me, I will respond a little further. First of all, I have experienced every feeling any new writer has felt... all the angst and insecurities that go with putting ourselves out there. Folks (even writers) can be mean and thoughtless, but overall I can't complain. Yes, I have received a good many reviews, and yes, most have been five star. That said, each word of each one means a lot to me. They are my recompense and I am like a kid at Christmas when I receive one. However many stars there happens to be, it still means I engaged a reader enough they took the time to leave a review. Please don't ever think I am jaded about what I receive from readers, because I am not. I make sure to respond to every single comment I receive, and since it became possible, I respond to every review left.

Readers have to decide for themselves about the star situation... I can't think for them, nor do I want to. All I was saying is that more readers like @centexhairysub would be a great thing for GA. He has always been engaged and leaves thoughtful comments and reactions throughout any stories of mine he's read, and I easily accept what he feels is right for him with regards to choosing a star rating. I always keep in mind many readers are reluctant to leave reviews at all... or anything else for that matter. 

As I said previously, life would be great if I could only get five star ratings, but that is unrealistic in my opinion. I don't like it either when I get twenty reviews on a story, and nineteen are five stars and one is four stars... and thus the overall star rating is diminished for all to see. In a constructive way, I suggest maybe there is a way to weight the system differently so this doesn't happen?? Just a thought. So, I hope you see I do get the opinions and thoughts stated in this thread... but if the expressed written reviews are appreciative and thoughtful, I am happy. That said, I don't need anyone to be eloquent... the act itself is enough affirmation for me.

I have left fifty reviews on stories so far (not enough, I know) ... many more before the big change and reviews became comments... and I have never left anything other than five stars. I have my own reasons for this, but mainly I try to be encouraging and supportive of new writers and show my appreciation for work that entertains or moves me. That is my choice, though. If a reader has a different way, then so be it. Now, if I start getting a bunch of two and three star ratings, we might have to start a new thread.  

Edited March 7, 2022 by Headstall

[James K]

The thread is going off topic. The original post was not about posting comments or criticism of authors. The question was: I gave a 4 star review and the author said don't bother giving a review if it's not 5 stars, what should I do?

The problem or point at issue is giving a less than 5 star review. @centexhairysub gives less than 5 star reviews and doesn't say what's wrong. There in lies the problem/issue. 

I would say you ought to say what's wrong with a story that it lost a star or two. 

There are other issues raised, but they should be in another thread.

[Kitt]

24 minutes ago, James K said:

The thread is going off topic

Discussions tend to do that. It is what happens when people have their minds stimulated.

[centexhairysub]

1 hour ago, James K said:

The thread is going off topic. The original post was not about posting comments or criticism of authors. The question was: I gave a 4 star review and the author said don't bother giving a review if it's not 5 stars, what should I do?

The problem or point at issue is giving a less than 5 star review. @centexhairysub gives less than 5 star reviews and doesn't say what's wrong. There in lies the problem/issue. 

I would say you ought to say what's wrong with a story that it lost a star or two. 

There are other issues raised, but they should be in another thread.

Thank you for your responses to this thread.  I had one author from GayAuthors and one from another site that uses a similar review system.  Neither seemed concerned with what I wrote in the review but only that I did not give it five stars.  My reading of their messages was that they were not concerned with my actual review but of the star ratings.  Maybe I did not communicate that well enough in my original post; if so I apologize.  

I am unsure how to ask what your responses triggered in me, but here goes.  Do you feel that every story deserves a five star rating and anything less has to have a delineation as to why it lost a star or two?  Even if I enjoyed everything about a story, the plot, the writing, the characters, etc...; can it not still be only a four star just because that is what I felt after reading it?  Do I have to explain why I felt that way? 

I am going to give an example, not sure it will help.  I had an author on another site that wrote a story that I loved....  The character development, characters, and writing were first rate; there were a few issues with grammar and the author did meander a bit in a few chapters but I rated it five stars because I just loved the story.  The author then got the book published and sold on Amazon, not sure of all the ends and out of that, but an editor was listed so I know he had gotten some professional help.  The grammatical errors had been corrected and the meandering parts sharpened; but while the overall storyline was not changed when I bought the book on Amazon, I simply did not enjoy it as much.  I have a four star review there.  Because of the editor, the book was technically better than before; but I just did not get as much enjoyment from it, don't even know if I can explain why.  When I left the four star review on Amazon, I talked about what I enjoyed in the book, I did nothing to indicate why I did not rate it five stars because I wanted to praise the author as this was his first published professional work.  Should I have tried to explain why I give him only four stars and put something negative in what I wrote?

I am not trying to be difficult, I guess I am just being dense about this; because I don't understand why I need to justify the star rating...  @James K, please help me understand your point of view on this... 

[ReaderPaul]

8 hours ago, Mawgrim said:

I'm not sure it makes a huge amount of difference to most readers whether a story has only five star reviews or not. Ultimately, each reader is going to be influenced by their own personal taste; a story one person loves might get a lukewarm reception from another.

I've always looked forward to @centexhairysub commenting on my chapters as they are posted and value every review I get. I can see why some writers might be bothered by a review which brings down their overall star rating, but I don't reckon it makes much difference to the number of people who actually choose to read the story.

A review can make me more likely to read a story.  As for the star ratings, my time is so limited that a three star rating is not likely to get a read from me, unless I have already read other stories I really liked by that author.

One author who posts here from time to time -- I wrote in more than one chapter comment that his stories needed more dialogue.  Another reader chimed in and agreed.  Two stories later, he started adding more dialogue, and the over all quality of his stories improved.   

Another author wrote good stories, but needed an editor.  If an author writes a good story, but sucks at spelling and has weird grammar, that would be fair game for a review.

To the admins, such as @Myr, @Cia, and others -- You do a very good work through this site, especially when one considers the many factors pushing, pulling, drawing, and repelling everything on the site.

Edited March 7, 2022 by ReaderPaul

[northie]

23 hours ago, centexhairysub said:

  Just trying to get some feedback about this issue; I had an author write to me basically asking me not to review his stories if I was not giving them a five star review.  He/She basically said that the readership of GayAuthors simply was unable or unwilling to read stories that did not have five star reviews.  Do others believe this to be true?  

OK - getting back to original question... (Everything else has been fascinating as well 😉) There are plenty of stories on GA that have no reviews at all. Would that stop me from them a look? No. If a story has consistent reviews of 3 stars or less, then I'm unlikely to seriously consider it.  Maybe I'd sample a chapter to get a feel but that's more likely to be a looking for issues way rather than intending to get into the story. 

Should people only give glowing reviews? No, but any comments should be fair and if possible, constructive. Some members will feel more able to do this than others. The lowest rating I'd leave (I'm taking my Audible experience here) would be 3 stars. If a story warranted anything lower, I'd have given up long before the end. 

Should authors only expect glowing reviews / ratings? Again, no. It's what we'd all love to see, but if all ratings are 5 star, they are largely meaningless. I'm much more interested in the review / comments. I remember receiving a comment on an earlyish short story which basically said it was a poor reading experience (I'm paraphrasing). Yes, it hurts but when I stood back and reconsidered, it was largely warranted. I went back and rewrote the story. I understand that not all writers will be happy taking that level of criticism. I wouldn't be happy giving that sort of comment.

At the end of day, you're putting your work out into the public domain. Yes, it's *only* GA but that's what it is. As an author, I care about what my readers think. Good or bad. Every comment adds to the experience. I might not agree with them all but that shouldn't prevent readers from giving me their honest opinion. If an author contacted me in this way, I'd not bother leaving any further comments or reviews on that author's work. Such a one-sided expectation isn't worth the time.

[James K]

@centexhairysub to keep this simple, a review is a balanced appraisal of a story, which includes an indication of what the story is about without giving away the ending. The reviewer may or may not recommend the story, depends how much they liked it. It seems quite obvious you can rate a story from one to five stars and that there is no need to rate a story five stars every time. That would be a sort of nepotism amongst writers, you rate me five stars I will rate you the same. I don't want to go there, although I know that exists. I do believe you should mention the bad points or less good points, if you like. Obviously if you give a story four stars there is something you found detracted from it being perfect. Well, what? The author wants to know, the potential reader wants to know. You can ignore any author who tells you not to criticise them, @Carlos Hazday covered that. You post a story, there is a review system, reviews are plus and minus points. It is very simple, although you can be led to thinking you are treading on eggshells daring to say something negative. Never mind, so long as your review is balanced and polite. If you say why you didn't like some aspect of a story, it's balanced. But you do need to say, you can't, not for me write reviews like the example I quoted, "well written, recommend you read it, four stars..." but no explanation with it didn't make five stars.

[Mrsgnomie]

3 hours ago, centexhairysub said:

I am not trying to be difficult, I guess I am just being dense about this; because I don't understand why I need to justify the star rating...  @James K, please help me understand your point of view on this... 

I cannot speak for @James K but I think the general consensus is that not every story needs to have a 5 star review, and it's PERFECTLY fine to leave whatever review you feel fitting, the confusion comes when the review is glowing but is given less than five stars. As a reader, it confuses me greatly when I read reviews like that. I'd like to know why, if the story was great on so many levels, did it not warrant five stars. As an author, I'm curious why, if my story was great on so many levels, did it not warrant five stars. Do you need to justify it? No. Would it be a helpful addition to your review? Absolutely!

Having gone back and read some of your reviews, they're very kind and thorough, I think one more line explaining what they lacked for you, even if it's not required, would help paint a full and balanced picture for readers reading it and authors receiving it.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Mrsgnomie

[Krista]

I also think we need to keep in mind - within this topic - we're not all coming from the same place. Some people are new to feedback, I wasn't the best at taking criticism when I was first starting out. "Public," or not, I don't think we should be off-handedly telling people to toughen up about their writing. It is easy for seasoned authors who have been here, to know how the system works and how to take critical feedback. That is why there is a perfectly fine thought of doing critical assessments and reviews in a more private setting. Especially since it is just easier to be more relaxed when you're not afraid of any sort of backlash from other readers that may not share the critical views being posted. To each their own, but I wouldn't want to dismiss anyone's concerns about feedback here, like I said, we're not all seasoned and used to critical feedback/reviews/star ratings. It is a growing pain that we all must go through and if you say that you have always been okay with critical feedback - then I would think you've told a wee little fib.  

It wasn't terribly poor manners if done respectfully, for an author to ask that a reader 'not' review something, specifically. It is also okay for the reviewer to walk away from that story on the basis of feeling pushed aside as well. Like I said in my earlier post, it is a good thing to be engaged with the audience that you have. I hope all authors who feel similarly learns how to take criticism better, or at least not be overwhelmed by critical assessments. If you're worried about a less than 5-Star rating, don't be, it is guaranteed to happen. It isn't a perfect system, and it never will be. 

[Myr]

Tl;DR:  All readers should rate to their feelings and provide as much as they are able as to why, the less stars they give.  Though, 5 with reasons is good too.  Also, use the Recommend button!  That has lots of reasons why you like the story, without the hassle of having to write something.

Longer version:

As the branching off in this discussion has shown, there is a great deal of flexibility in how people approach stories. 

Flat out, everyone should review stories how they feel about them and don't act like an asshole.  The star rating is an opinion, like the text added with it.  Best case scenario, someone gives you 5 stars and lots of reasons they felt that way.  Worst case scenario you get a 1 star and "everything sucks and you're a horrible human being."  (We moderate those as that's an personal attack)

So, how the system works, as this might be an ah-hah for new people:
Story Comments allow you to write up some commentary/review/whatever on a story.  They are availability at any time.
Story Reviews are only open on complete stories and require a star rating and commentary of some sort in order to post.
Something off topic from the original post, but tying into giving feedback to authors... Story Recommendations.  They allow readers to give some canned reasons on why they like a story.  Not as good as detailed reasons, but lets our more shy readers still say why they like something without the pressure of what to say or how to say it.  I'm clearly in the camp of giving as many tools as possible to readers and writers to accommodate as many methods to do so as we can.

My personal approach on stars... I don't write 1 star reviews.  If I hate something that bad, I don't read it.  2 Star reviews are a case where I had to read it and made it to the end.  3, I liked the story.  4, I really liked the story.  5, I thought the story was outstanding.  Note, unlike some others, I tend to see what I should see on grammar, spelling and you have to been really grossly off for me to notice.

For Authors, you are going to get everything under the sun.  If you get a less than 5 star review and it's not got any feedback in it and you care for the number you got, send the person a PM and ask them what they liked and didn't like.  Maybe you can more feedback that way.  Don't take it personally, unless it is personal.  And if it is a personal attack, report it.  That's a moderation issue.

For readers, leave as much for the author as you can.  As an author, I can say it helps to know what wasn't liked about a story.  It's how we learn and get better with our craft.  If you like a story, use the recommend system too and select the reasons.

I personally find these much more useful than the reviews/review ratings... but it is just one aspect of what I use to find stories.  This tells me a hell of a lot more than 1,2,3,4, or 5 stars tells me and what is often a few words (guilty of this myself).  Readers find these easier too.  We're not all gifted with words and, gosh it can be hard finding the right words to be supportive, push someone towards improvement, not crush their spirit and not discourage them. Congrats to @Mrsgnomie, as that is a snapshot from Boss Nanny, the most recommended story on site with 84 members giving it the thumbs up. This can tell you a lot too.  81 out of 84 members said "Characters".

Of course, I'm an Engineering Manager... I look at numbers and correlate data for a living, so my point of view is probably horribly skewed. 

Does my meandering here help?  @Carlos Hazday how do you view the different options?  comments/star reviews/recommendations?

[Cia]

GA tends toward preferences of praise over pressure and, at most, gentle critique over critical feedback. I like that we have a good mix of authors and readers who support each other. I often refuse to edit for newer authors, though, because I'm just too overwhelming to someone newer to the craft; a very thorough reviewer may be the same. Now, I don't know the exact tone and language used to refuse a less than 5 star review, but to me, that feels more of a desire for non-critical feedback only to be viewed by prospective readers than someone who desires for their story to reflect honest feedback, with the excuse being story reads suffering. However, by the metrics Myr has shared many times on the site, there's a lot more criteria readers are using to pick stories than just reviews; they don't tend to create a huge surge on otherwise non-popular content, for example. They are helpful to other readers, yes, but I think a prospective reader is far more likely to check other meta data than just less than 5 star reviews. In fact, it may have readers taking a closer look they might have skipped, giving authors a chance to hook them in. 

[Carlos Hazday]

@Cia A long time ago, prompted by Myr and Mann talking about how thorough your editing was, I asked you to edit for me. You turned me down. Your loss, toots. There went your chance to rip me a new one.

@Myr I agree readers should react to a story whichever way they feel like. Some of us thrive on critical reactions because we want to improve. Other authors may be interested in writing and posting not worrying about what anyone thinks. Both approaches are valid.

My chapters get a good number of reactions and comments, but my stories will never be among the most recommended or reviewed. No idea why. I have mentioned it a couple of times, but I'm past begging for reactions every chapter. A newer author might not be as secure in their writing and crave positive reinforcement, so the constant reminders might be just what they need.

I use every tool available to provide feedback. And yes, in a few instances when my criticism was extremely harsh, I've used PMs. But an author trying to restrict any sort of reaction is wrong. Evaluating artistic endeavors will always be subjective (think of the East German gymnastics judge giving a Westerner a lower score) and will not always be favorable. Aside from the 'this story and you suck' comments, we can learn from most reactions to our work. Although I'm still wondering why someone ranked a story of mine without a sex scene in it as 'smoldering.'

The author who demands all reviews include 5-star ratings should consider offering a better product. Even then, it's up to the reader. More stars won't mean I read anything. I rely on tags, descriptions, recommendations, reviews, reactions, and comments when deciding what to read. GA offers multiple ways for readers to react so why limit myself?

To readers: Do as you please. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

To authors: Stop whining. Use what you get and learn from it.

 

PS Inflation in reactions reminds me of grade inflation in schools or participation trophies. Positive reinforcement is fine, but sometimes we have to call trash what it is.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Carlos Hazday

[chris191070]

Most authors on GA have there core family of readers, that keep returning when they release a new story, so they don't have to worry so much about reviews or recommendations.

It's the newer authors that sometimes struggle to develop a reader base that need the reviews, chapter comments, recommendations to draw readers to there stories.

That's why if the story appeals I will try and read most new authors, not necessarily reviewing, but leaving chapter comments.

But all authors be they established or newcomers enjoy reacting with there readers, be it through chapter comments, recommendations or reviews.

Edited March 9, 2022 by chris191070

[centexhairysub]

I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread.  After reading them all; I realize that part of the issue with my reviews is that I tend not to leave criticism in the actual review.  Unless something is just truly egregious, I tend to only write what I like in the actual review and then give it a star rating based on how much I liked the story.  I do use the recommend buttons as well, sometimes too liberally.  Those authors that regularly have me read their works know that I tend to comment on each and every chapter of a story.  Some of those comments are often more critical than anything in my reviews.  I even had an author that I followed for a long time, pause a story over a very critical story comment; he sent me a pm for additional feedback because I made him question the whole direction of where he was going with the storyline.  I honestly, never want to do that...  I appreciate the time, energy, and giving of yourself that each author demonstrates when he/she post a story on here.  The stories are their creations and good or bad; they should be appreciated for what they are, something the author is choosing to share with the rest of us.  

Thanks for all the feedback.

[Mrsgnomie]

4 minutes ago, centexhairysub said:

I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread.  After reading them all; I realize that part of the issue with my reviews is that I tend not to leave criticism in the actual review.  Unless something is just truly egregious, I tend to only write what I like in the actual review and then give it a star rating based on how much I liked the story.  I do use the recommend buttons as well, sometimes too liberally.  Those authors that regularly have me read their works know that I tend to comment on each and every chapter of a story.  Some of those comments are often more critical than anything in my reviews.  I even had an author that I followed for a long time, pause a story over a very critical story comment; he sent me a pm for additional feedback because I made him question the whole direction of where he was going with the storyline.  I honestly, never want to do that...  I appreciate the time, energy, and giving of yourself that each author demonstrates when he/she post a story on here.  The stories are their creations and good or bad; they should be appreciated for what they are, something the author is choosing to share with the rest of us.  

Thanks for all the feedback.

Thank you for being an engaging reader and for asking this questions. I think it has been and will continue to be helpful to readers and authors who happen upon this thread. 

[BigBen]

It's not surprising that authors don't like to receive anything less than five stars, but it seems bad form to tell a reader not to leave a review with less than that.

Since, when someone clicks on the Story menu the first umpteen stories to show up are all in progress and therefore have no reviews, it seems a bit silly to focus on reviews, when we users are being trained not to look for them.  And in any case, my tastes are so idiosyncratic that it's simply easier to start reading a likely-looking story and form my own opinion, rather than rely on anyone else's.

By the way, does anyone know why the system prompts readers to leave a review before they start reading, rather than after?  I've always wondered.

[Myr]

8 minutes ago, BigBen said:

By the way, does anyone know why the system prompts readers to leave a review before they start reading, rather than after?  I've always wondered.

You will have to define what you mean by this statement. The system only specifically prompts you to review at the bottom of the last chapter of a completed story.