Crave By Litlover

[Former Member]

2 hours ago, Bucket1 said:

Am I being too hard on Alek? Isn't the respect issue important too? It's not just that Liam was a secret, he was a dirty little secret

No, you’re not being too hard on Alek!

 

I still believe Alek was being emotionally abusive even though I was told it I didn’t know what emotional abuse was. I believe Alek has been allowed to be too much of a coward with the excuse that his family prevented him from Coming Out. If being Closeted was that important to Alek, he should never have been dating!

 

It’s not just that he didn’t respect Liam enough during their entire sordid dating history, he didn’t respect himself either.

 

Spoiler

But just as I was unhappy with the epilogue of Red Running Shoe which flipped the satisfying ‘last’ chapter’s conclusion into tragedy, I have the sick feeling that LitLover is going to allow Alek to get away with having emotionally tormented Liam over and over again – and still get Liam back.

 

Liam needs to grow up and realize that being coupled is not necessary for a happy life. Just as Alek has claimed he didn’t Come Out for Liam, Liam needs to understand that he doesn’t have to reward Alek by accepting him back as more than just a friend. Nathan is proof that there are other men besides Alek who would be interested in being with him. It’s not that he only has two choices to select from.

 

An HEA does not have to mean Alek!

 

[hohochan657]

I am confused about what emotional / physical abuse is ...  I just don't understand where anyone stands anymore ...  I can't even come out and tell people what I honestly think, for fear of alienating the one that I like (as a friend) ...  Life is complicated and everyone is different, there seems to be no universal standard, well as it may be, sometimes I feel people bend the rules a little too much to suit their own agendas ...

 

What is love ?

[Former Member]

56 minutes ago, hohochan657 said:

What is love ?

A song by Howard Jones. Or a song by En Vogue. Or a song by Debbie Harry. Or several other singers and groups.

 

Also, apparently, a Taiwanese TV series from a few years age.

[LitLover]

15 hours ago, Bucket1 said:

Am I being too hard on Alek? Isn't the respect issue important too? It's not just that Liam was a secret, he was a dirty little secret

 

I can't comment on much without giving away too much, but I don't think you're being too hard on Alek.  He may have come a long way, but Liam felt second rate, and that's a big thing to overcome. 

[Bucket1]

10 hours ago, LitLover said:

 

I can't comment on much without giving away too much, but I don't think you're being too hard on Alek.  He may have come a long way, but Liam felt second rate, and that's a big thing to overcome. 

Bloody authors, awesome. Absolutely.

[Drew Espinosa]

19 hours ago, Defiance19 said:

FYI: There is an unofficial fan based campaign going for the author to pen Book 3, tentatively titled "Unexpected"

 

Please start with Unforgivable, continue on to Choices and then throw your hungry birds into the ring for a Book 3 launch. Remember every 'cheep' counts.

Here's my first official cheep for Unexpected!  

[Defiance19]

Just now, Drew Espinosa said:

Here's my first official cheep for Unexpected!  

Good going Drew...

 

CHEEP!! 

[hohochan657]

13 hours ago, Drew Espinosa said:

Here's my first official cheep for Unexpected!  

 

13 hours ago, Defiance19 said:

Good going Drew...

 

CHEEP!! 

Cheep !  Cheep !  Cheep !

[Timothy M.]

18 hours ago, Drew Espinosa said:

Here's my first official cheep for Unexpected!  

 

CHEEP, CHEEP

[Headstall]

On 5/21/2017 at 9:05 AM, droughtquake said:

No, you’re not being too hard on Alek!

 

I still believe Alek was being emotionally abusive even though I was told it I didn’t know what emotional abuse was. I believe Alek has been allowed to be too much of a coward with the excuse that his family prevented him from Coming Out. If being Closeted was that important to Alek, he should never have been dating!

 

It’s not just that he didn’t respect Liam enough during their entire sordid dating history, he didn’t respect himself either.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

But just as I was unhappy with the epilogue of Red Running Shoe which flipped the satisfying ‘last’ chapter’s conclusion into tragedy, I have the sick feeling that LitLover is going to allow Alek to get away with having emotionally tormented Liam over and over again – and still get Liam back.

 

Liam needs to grow up and realize that being coupled is not necessary for a happy life. Just as Alek has claimed he didn’t Come Out for Liam, Liam needs to understand that he doesn’t have to reward Alek by accepting him back as more than just a friend. Nathan is proof that there are other men besides Alek who would be interested in being with him. It’s not that he only has two choices to select from.

 

An HEA does not have to mean Alek!

 

I respect everyone's opinion. We all have our own outlooks, most often based on our upbringing and personal experiences or what we've witnessed in our lives. I get the disgust for Alek, but what I don't get is the lack of compassion for a man's journey through something so difficult. Was coming out a walk in the park for all of us? Pffft... not a fecking chance. Take a business funded by daddy and friends and family with rigid old world values and expectations, and the fact Alek wants to succeed with that business, and add to that a man (Liam) who, with eyes wide open, wanted a relationship with that man. A coward? His family was an excuse? Yeah, Alek was stuck... blah, blah blah... let's let him boil in his own juices because he tried to hold onto both. Take him out back and shoot him... Remember... to this very day, the country he comes from murders gays on a daily basis, in some really horrible ways, and their president not only looks the other way, he is said to believe it right and just. No big deal, right? I say, give the man a break, or judge me with him, because my path doesn't fit with... yay I'm gay and I don't care who knows it... what Alek is most guilty of is falling in love with a wonderful guy... yeah, he's guilty of some other stuff along the way... we all know that, but I would never write someone off who wanted love. He's made huge changes in his life... sorted out what really matters, and is ridiculously in love with the guy he thought he had lost forever. Too hard on Alek? That is for each of us to decide. Everyone has a right to their opinion... and mine is the big Russian and Liam deserve this new chance.  

[hohochan657]

Whoa !  So many strong opinions on this relationship ...  Hmm ... we all bring our own "baggage" to this debate ...  

 

Well, Liam and Alek did break up multiple times over the issue of "being inside the closet" and even LitL has hinted at there being a lot more work needed to be done by Alek to gain the trust of Liam again.  Alek did choose his business and his family over Liam, and there would be consequences for each of the choices he had made.  

 

I think we're so vehement in our desire for how the story should go forward, precisely because it is fiction; we feel we should be able to control the outcome of this tale.  We, each of us, take the characters to heart and have written "fan fictional" accounts for them, projecting all our hopes, desires, fears, prejudices and a myriad of other emotions onto them.  If, in the end, the story doesn't fit our version of it, we freely reject what LitL will have written and part ways with Liam and Alek ...

[Drew Espinosa]

1 minute ago, LitLover said:

 

*head bowed and feeling properly chastised*. I'm sorry  

Sweetie, don't feel bad.  

 

1 minute ago, Drew Espinosa said:

I'll give her a cheep cheep instead!  <cheering for Unexpected!>

 

[Drew Espinosa]

2 minutes ago, Headstall said:

Isn't Team Nathan defunct now... I thought the train crashed... fortunately, our Reader was thrown clear   

 

My thoughts on the matter...  

On 5/5/2017 at 8:02 PM, Drew Espinosa said:

Nyce Air is soarin'

Lathan Locomotives is derailin'

 

[Drew Espinosa]

Ya know, I think Lit will succeed in turning Team Nathan's frown upside down over the next chapters...  And no, I don't mean that Liam chooses Nathan.  

 

PS: Cheep! Cheep!  

Edited May 25, 2017 by Drew Espinosa

[Former Member]

4 hours ago, Drew Espinosa said:

Quoting LitLover:

*head bowed and feeling properly chastised*. I'm sorry  

 

3 hours ago, Drew Espinosa said:

Quoting Headstall:

Isn't Team Nathan defunct now... I thought the train crashed... fortunately, our Reader was thrown clear   

Where are these unattributed quotes coming from?

[Drew Espinosa]

17 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

 

Where are these unattributed quotes coming from?

Other threads.  

 

PS: The arrow in the upper right corner of a quote takes you directly to the actual post that is being quoted. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Drew Espinosa

[Timothy M.]

4 hours ago, Drew Espinosa said:

Ya know, I think Lit will succeed in turning Team Nathan's frown upside down over the next chapters...  And no, I don't mean that Liam chooses Nathan.  

 

PS: Cheep! Cheep!  

 

No, no, that has to wait for the next story: Unexpected by Litlover.

 

PS: Pip, pip (what birds say in Denmark  )

Edited May 25, 2017 by Timothy M.

[Former Member]

31 minutes ago, Timothy M. said:

Pip, pip (what birds say in Denmark  )

Chicken chicks say peep! peep! in English. That’s why they sell marshmallow Peeps candy!  ;-)

[JayT]

I can do nothing but sympathize with Alek...I am a lot like Alek, just never have been with someone that gave me an ultimatum, so I can't tell you what I would have done if placed in a similar situation. In October/November 1995, I told my parents I was gay. The response was "No, you're not." Huge fight, my mom calling their preacher saying, 'Jay thinks he might be gay,' being told by that preacher 'if you don't change your evil ways and stop choosing to be gay, you'll go to hell,' deep depression, and a bout of anorexia later and I was asked not to return to the University I was attending. Moved back home from living away in the dorms for a year, and am asked, 'Do you still think you're gay?' When I say yes repeat from above without the University part. Two years later, 'You still going through your gay phase?' I explain it's not a phase, i'm positive i was gay. My parents tell me 'We don't want to know that. If you choose this lifestyle, we don't want to see it or hear about it. Never bring one of them over here for any reason. If you choose this lifestyle, you are welcome here for holidays, but if you're dating someone or something, they cannot come.' Guess where we are today. They don't ask, I don't force the issue. It's  a stalemate. Why rock the boat? Everyone involved is happy.

Every once in while my mom seems like she might be coming around. About 3 years ago, the Southern Baptist Association officially changed their stance on homosexuality. Preachers whose churches are member of the SBA can no longer preach that homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuals are now allowed to be church members, the official stance of the association is 'hate the sin, not the sinner.' There was an article in the Dallas Morning News about this decision, which was made at the SBA National Conference by a vote of 80% for to 20% against.  She made sure that I read that article. Nothing else was said about it. Then about a year later, she showed me another article in the Dallas Morning News about a Baptist Church near downtown. First Baptist Church Dallas (a member of the SBA) preacher's took an official stance speaking out against the decision in a press release. (they are still a member b/c he has not done any sermon specifically about homosexuality being wrong). This other Baptist Church that was about 2 miles away had actually taken a bigger step in the right direction. In church-wide vote of its official members, 95% for to 5% against, homosexuals could now become Deacons at that church. Another vote of the same %, the church would perform and bless same-sex marriages. Again, my mother showed me the article, nothing more was said after I read it. I don't know what I would do if I started dating someone and they made me choose between them and telling my family. I would hope that they would listen to my thinking. It's not something I'm able to do immediately. My parents are both almost 70 years old. That means that for the past almost 50-55 years, they have lived with this fundamental belief of what they were taught-homosexuality is a choice and it's a sin. I don't expect them to change a fundamental core belief suddenly overnight. That's impossible. Those beliefs have to be changed slowly and gently handled. For years, I would try to force the issue on them. Result, we fought physically, spiritually, and emotionally. When I had the epiphany that I was only 30 years old and I was refusing to change my views on this subject but they were in their 50's and 60's, if I wasn't willing to change immediately, why should I expect them to? Sorry, i didn't mean to write a novel here, but now y'all know what I meant when I said y'all are the only family I have that accepts that I'm gay. There's a lot more to the story (my bitch sister-in-law that won't allow me to see my nieces and nephew because she doesn't know that I don't have HIV or Hep-C). 

I know where Alek is coming from. He has no bigger support for Team Alek than me.

 

[hohochan657]

16 minutes ago, JayT said:

 

I know where Alek is coming from. He has no bigger support for Team Alek than me.

 

I am in tears after reading this ... my parents are in their 80's, so it is mostly "out of sight, out of mind" for them as well.  But my mother did tell my cousin (very close to us, more like a sister) that she has accepted the relationship between me and my then boyfriend (very complicated) ...

 

Jay, in my eyes, you've been a very good son and I really hope that your mother will eventually come to terms with your sexuality !

 

[Timothy M.]

1 hour ago, JayT said:

I know where Alek is coming from. He has no bigger support for Team Alek than me.

 

 

I can totally relate to that, and I think you're a good person for how you've handled it, Jay.  

My mother does and says things I dislike, but in most cases I've given up on changing her ways (she's almost 80). Wherever I do say something, she gets angry with me, so most of the time I simply tell her what she wants to hear and what makes her happy. And it's not like she's a bad mom or a bad person, she's actually pretty decent as parents go. We all make allowances for our parents one way or another, and the longer we've deferred to their opinions the harder it is to put your foot down and take a stance. So I agree with Liam - I'm impressed Alek finally did it, even if he should have done it before. I'm actually even more impressed and pleased that Alek seems comfortable and happy with his decision to come out.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Timothy M.

[JayT]

29 minutes ago, Timothy M. said:

 

I can totally relate to that, and I think you're a good person for how you've handled it, Jay.  

My mother does and says things I dislike, but in most cases I've given up on changing her ways (she's almost 80). Wherever I do say something, she gets angry with me, so most of the time I simply tell her what she wants to hear and what makes her happy. And it's not like she's a bad mom or a bad person, she's actually pretty decent as parents go. We all make allowances for our parents one way or another, and the longer we've deferred to their opinions the harder it is to put your foot down and take a stance. So I agree with Liam - I'm impressed Alek finally did it, even if he should have done it before. I'm actually even more impressed and pleased that Alek seems comfortable and happy with his decision to come out.

exactly I know my parents love me but love doesn't mean like and accept everything about the person 

[LitLover]

2 hours ago, JayT said:

I know where Alek is coming from. He has no bigger support for Team Alek than me.

 

  Your family has no idea what they're missing, not knowing the real you, and I do empathize with the idea of not rocking the boat.  Family is family, no matter how flawed, and it's a hard decision to walk away from them. 

 

Edit:  I should also add:  Maybe not necessarily flawed, but families also don't often share the same beliefs and that can cause some deep rifts 

Edited May 25, 2017 by LitLover

[LitLover]

Chapter 19 is up.  I hope you like it.  

 

Please give Gary a lot of love for hustling his cute butt to get this chapter edited for me, even though I dropped the ball and didn't it to him until really late in the day yesterday.  

[Former Member]

3 hours ago, JayT said:

the official stance of the association is 'hate the sin, not the sinner.'

That phrase is nowhere in the bible. Their Jesus was all about love, not hate. The Southern Baptists supported slavery and they haven’t progressed much in the last 150 years.