Villians... what makes a good one?

[JamesSavik]

There are your stereotypical mustache twirling charactertures of villains but what makes a really good villain that instills fear and loathing in the reader?

 

I ran across one some time ago that stuck out in my mind. What I remember about the guy was that he was an ordinary guy. Everybody trusted him. He told the truth as far as anyone could tell. He didn't wear black or twirl his mustache.

 

What he did do was wait until the most critical moment, betrayed everyone and walked away with all the diamonds and left his teammates to face the music.

 

So tell me- what makes a good villain?

 

What makes him tick?

 

Do you chose evil are are you born that way?

 

Is a villain just an ordinary guy that choses the worst possible moment fail, to screw over everybody or get drunk and slaughter a car/bus/train full of people.

 

Or is a villain a guy named Snake that kills people for kicks and sells crack to middle schoolers just to watch them hurt for it?

[Cia]

Wow, what an interesting question. I enjoy hating a good antagonist that you see coming, as you said the mustache twirling type. The one that you just know is up to no good. Conversely, I do think that the villian that sneaks up on you, that you would never see coming is so much more heinous. The shock factor that comes from the the unexpected betrayer always seems to create much more turmoil. Thanks for the brain teaser.

 

 

[Duncan Ryder]

I think all of what can said about the banality of evil is captured in Leonard Cohen's poem, below:

 

 

'ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT ADOLF EICHMANN'

 

EYES - Medium

HAIR - Medium

WEIGHT - Medium

HEIGHT - Medium

DISTINGUISHING FEATURES - None

NUMBER OF FINGERS - Ten

NUMBER OF TOES - Ten

INTELLIGENCE - Medium

 

What did you expect?

Talons?

Oversize incisors?

Green saliva?

Madness?

from Flowers for Hitler (1964)

[W_L]

I hope you guys like my anti-villain.

 

An anti-villain is a villain with good intentions and maybe even honorable personality, but his actions are usually geared toward the negative for others.

 

I like writing good guys that are villains due to reality and perception. Some famous people in history can be counted as villains if you have a certain perception.

 

For example:

 

Abraham Lincoln is highly revered for his anti-slavery ideals and the unification of the US, which makes him a hero, but his actions during the civil war were villainous. Suspending civil liberties and arresting people for potential threats to the US. I still think of him as a hero of chaos, but others may view him as a villain.

 

Many people don't get that "good" villains exist along with "bad" heroes, who aren't just your average scowl and shit-eating anti-heroes. Real "bad" heroes are hypothetically like a Mossad operative that blow up a building in Beirut in order to implicate an extremist political faction in terrorism. While dozens of innocent women and children die, thousands are saved due to the popular sentiment going against the political faction and preventing another Middle east war.

 

However, the tactics and techniques they use to inspire fear and political strife is comparable to what Hamas is doing within their own country. So, they have used "bad" actions against "bad" guys. However, I don't think it makes them "good", simply heroes of a different caliber than most people will ever acknowledge or truly praise for their actions.

 

I enjoy these types of characters.

[Krista]

I actually think the ones you don't see coming make the better villains if they are developed correctly and aren't introduced really late into the story just to become the villain. Manipulative people I love reading about, especially if they do have one redeeming quality deeply hidden in the story, and at one point of the story had you wanting better things for that character..

 

Like Aaron in Desert Dropping for example... he had some redeeming qualities, but wasn't a sneaky "villain" and yeah they don't have to do evil things they can just be... "bad boys" especially in strict romances.. lol

 

Oh.. and usually what makes them tick.. its [selfishness] isn't it? Usually villains want something/someone and don't give a damn about how they obtain it.

[Nephylim]

Like the ordinary person who, due to circumstances beyond their control are placed in a position where they become a hero, is very attractive to people becuase they can relate... they can see how, if placed in the same situation themselves it could have been them; so the villain who is just an ordinary person who, due to circumstances, bad choices and character flaws is all the more sinister for the same reason.

[W_L]

Is there such a thing as a noble villain?

[Tiger]

I like a good betrayal in a story. You think he or she is good, but their true colors come out at the most inopportune time. Who doesn't like that kind of villain? They're so subtle, and they can often trick the story's protagonist(s). That is my favorite. I also like the anti-hero just like W.L. The traditional since of hero and villain does not excite me, especially as a writer. I like a web of intrigue. Sometimes the heroes are flawed in ways that will shock.

[JamesSavik]

I like a good betrayal in a story.

 

 

I hate villains that betray worst of all.

 

Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.

[Tiger]

I hate villains that betray worst of all.

 

Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.

That's the point. You're supposed to hate a villain. Who can be hated more than a villain?

[Nephylim]

That's the point. You're supposed to hate a villain. Who can be hated more than a villain?

 

 

A villainess

[W_L]

That's the point. You're supposed to hate a villain. Who can be hated more than a villain?

 

How about the hero?

[Tiger]

How about the hero?

Nah! Nobody would read it then.

[W_L]

Nah! Nobody would read it then.

 

I don't know you can hate a hero and still love the story, look at House MD

[Tiger]

I don't know you can hate a hero and still love the story, look at House MD

He's definitely the anti-hero. He's also hilarious. Why would anyone hate him?

[Former Member]

How about the hero?

 

That's the point of stories where the hero is the greater of two evils...if he's only the lesser he becomes an anti-hero

 

 

 

[Graeme]

I'm pretty bad with writing villains because I believe everyone should have a reason for what they do. Too many villains appear to be villains because they are...

 

To me, a good villain is one who is self-consistent. We can see why he is doing what he is doing (even if we don't learn all the details up front), and within that framework he is operating in a consistent way. We may disagree with what he is doing, but we can see why he's doing what he's doing.

 

The trouble is making the villain either too stupid or too perfect. If they are too stupid, they will be laughed at. If they are too perfect, they aren't human (just like heroes shouldn't be too perfect). A good villain should have weaknesses. This could either be character traits (eg. too boastful, or a tendency to be over-confident), or it could be something outside them (eg. a secret that they are desperate not to get out -- they may believe they have silenced everyone who knows, but they missed one...)

 

Creating a good villain is a lot more work, usually, than creating a good hero. The reason is that a hero has 'air time' in a story, but the villain usually doesn't. That means that portraying the character of the villain is a lot more challenging than that for the hero. It's too easy to make the villain a stereotype because we often only get to see them through the eyes of others.

[Fishwings]

I douno, maybe it's just me, but half of the time I can't hate villains. I mean... : )

 

But I agree. Betrayal for me really does the trick, I'm not exactly sure why. Perhaps it's the fact that they usually come from villains whom are already well developed, and more or less just as alive as the protagonist. Or similar. I think that gives the protagonist more of a reason to hate him/her, and as readers we'll relate and react the same way.

[Mark Arbour]

Would that be something like honor among thieves. I think that the Godfather series had some noble villians. They were true to their code of ethics and what they did among themselves was honorable to their standards. Their general business was slime, but that was just business. Take care.

 

Louisiana Writer

 

Good example. A villain you end up liking and rooting for.

[W_L]

I'm pretty bad with writing villains because I believe everyone should have a reason for what they do. Too many villains appear to be villains because they are...

 

To me, a good villain is one who is self-consistent. We can see why he is doing what he is doing (even if we don't learn all the details up front), and within that framework he is operating in a consistent way. We may disagree with what he is doing, but we can see why he's doing what he's doing.

 

The trouble is making the villain either too stupid or too perfect. If they are too stupid, they will be laughed at. If they are too perfect, they aren't human (just like heroes shouldn't be too perfect). A good villain should have weaknesses. This could either be character traits (eg. too boastful, or a tendency to be over-confident), or it could be something outside them (eg. a secret that they are desperate not to get out -- they may believe they have silenced everyone who knows, but they missed one...)

 

Creating a good villain is a lot more work, usually, than creating a good hero. The reason is that a hero has 'air time' in a story, but the villain usually doesn't. That means that portraying the character of the villain is a lot more challenging than that for the hero. It's too easy to make the villain a stereotype because we often only get to see them through the eyes of others.

 

Graeme, I got an interesting thought, what if the villain started out as a hero, then you progressively make him darker as the story went along?

 

Some of my favorite fictional stories are found in comic book like the Marvel Super hero civil war saga. Everyone began the story as a hero, but some slowly started turning as the story went along due to their own degrees of beliefs in certain things.

 

Take Iron Man, I won't leak too many spoilers, but suffice to say, he was originally a very big hero. As the civil war and dividing lines started, his action started going south. In my mind, the storyline revealed an interesting transition of a hero, who for his own beliefs turned into an unwilling villain for a cause that is controversial.

 

My thought about creating the best villain is not to create a villain to start the story, at least not a villain you can see at first. Create heroes with great ideals and contrasting belief systems, then let the natural evolution of such ideas form around issues. When a certain principle or issue comes into place, you could create a dividing line or a lightning rod for villains to be made from the transition of heroes.

 

In reality, such villains are not villains in their own mind, but the ideas they support are opposite of what others believe. On the other side, the heroes may be viewed as villains for going against the same issue or eventuality.

 

Creating a dynamic hero/villain, it is my hope for the stories that I am writing, where both sides of the readers can see the merits of the heroes/villains' logic, while being unable to accept the other side's position.

[Rilbur]

I'm pretty bad with writing villains because I believe everyone should have a reason for what they do. Too many villains appear to be villains because they are...

 

Yet, at the same time that very mentality can create a great villain. I'm referring, for those that follow gaming, to "Kefka" from Final Fantasy VI (III as originally released in US). He was a villain's villain... and he just didn't have any 'reasons' to be that way. Yet he's one of the greatest villains of final fantasy history (heck, IMO of any story ever). Why is he such a great villain? Other's have tried to tackle that, but I think it's the combination of humor and sheer 'love-to-hate' he gives off. You just love to hate him... and he's funny (mostly) as he goes around being hateful. By the end of the game, he reaches the point where he's wanting to destroy everything... just because he wants to destroy everything. He's cruel, ruthless, silly, and absolutely not to be trusted. Like, at all.

 

 

 

 

That said, most people are better off trying to create more 'real' villains; Kefka works because he breaks the rules, but the rules exist for a reason. Most of the time, you just aren't going to be very successful if you try breaking them.

[W_L]

I think Kefka was actually based off another literary concept:

 

The Kafka villain, basically a nameless villain without clear motives in a labyrinth-plot.

[Myval]

I'm bring up more Rp references...

 

On another site I'm on, some gave the idea that a "good" villians is one that has a reason for being evil. When I was making villians for my rpg, i made my Villian/hero Tisophine. In the Rpg, she was a villian becuase she was targeting the 'heroes'. Why? She was motivated by vengence. My Hero character, wronged her family and she was seeking vengence along with her sisters. hm that might make a good story, I should write the story when the rp is done!

 

But anywho....