Black Widow (Story Discussion)

[davewri]

I'm not whining about a new chapter, just quietly whimpering.

[impunity]

Is it us? Have we not been entertaining enough?  

[Headstall]

Is it us? Have we not been entertaining enough?  

I don't think I have been... Mike has though... still laugh at 'accidentally shot himself in the head... twice"

[Mark Arbour]

Just to show how much I love you guys, my hungover ass got the latest chapter posted.  I'm going back to bed.

[KevinD]

OK authors ever give us the ability to go back and edit your post to correct mistakes that we did not find? My iPad does not play well with the site which makes it difficult for me to catch and correct Siri's dictation foibles...

 

So here are my corrected comments from chapter reviews and posted here:

 

We knew it had to happen… Will is handling this situation with the Zach very well and seems to have made the right call. The question is just as other significant couples before them: Will they survive the two or three years, perhaps even four or five, to get back together? And what will it take for Zack to decide that Will is right and that he will not be happy playing football? What has to hit him in the head to wake him up? LOL! We knew it had to happen…

 

JP seems to have called the situation right – all of them accepted items that were unexpectedly put in front of them to remove them, isolating Elizabeth's targets. Will's spending is impressive and I am happy to know that eventually Mark will let us be the proverbial fly on the wall to see and hear Brad's reactions!

 

And then we have JJ and Johnny C...

 

As many others have mentioned before me, it has been nice to see JJ develop over the storylines becoming his own person. His discipline as skater would seem to be serving him well as he applies that very same discipline to a large extent over his libido and his outlook on relationships. I certainly didn't expect this but I can see that as JJ continues to develop courtesy of Mark, he could become one of my favorite characters in the CAP series.

 

Thank you Mark and team Arbour!

[impunity]

Just to show how much I love you guys, my hungover ass got the latest chapter posted. I'm going back to bed.

You know, you don't have to take us seriously. But thank you!

 

Feel better soon.

[Daddydavek]

Somehow I think Arbour does his best plotting in bed....

[apjordan]

As more and more signs point to Elizabeth as the mastermind, a little voice in the back of my head won't let go of the fact that she's not, technically, a widow. (Recall that that technicality mattered quite a bit in the planning of the Senator's funeral and the settling of his estate.) Even though Mark has hinted that the title might not be literal, I can't help but notice that we still don't have any actual confirmation that Elizabeth is even involved, let alone in charge. In his conversation with Wade in chapter 12, Trevor denies that Mary Ellen is involved; but when Wade implicates Elizabeth, Trevor doesn't say anything at all. The only things Trevor says about Elizabeth are generic observations about her character. 

 

I think there's also at least a part of me that wants the small shred of humanity buried inside Elizabeth, particularly the affection and respect she has for Brad, to make it unlikely that she would mastermind a plot that would hurt his children so badly. (And while we haven't seen it yet, I won't be surprised if the plot eventually expands to place Darius in harm's way as well.)

 

So, I'm holding out for the revelation of a surprise antagonist.

 

As for Will and Zach, I'm struck by a parallel that I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't dedicated some summer reading time to revisiting the older CAP stories: Will's need to regularly reassess and renegotiate the terms of his relationship with Zach is so reminiscent of how Brad handled his relationship with Robbie, especially while they were in school. If they were aware of these similarities in language, forceful certainty, and elicited reactions, I think it would freak Will out and make Brad chuckle. 

 

Thanks, as always, Mark and team, for keeping us engaged and entertained!

[KevinD]

As more and more signs point to Elizabeth as the mastermind, a little voice in the back of my head won't let go of the fact that she's not, technically, a widow. (Recall that that technicality mattered quite a bit in the planning of the Senator's funeral and the settling of his estate.) Even though Mark has hinted that the title might not be literal, I can't help but notice that we still don't have any actual confirmation that Elizabeth is even involved, let alone in charge. In his conversation with Wade in chapter 12, Trevor denies that Mary Ellen is involved; but when Wade implicates Elizabeth, Trevor doesn't say anything at all. The only things Trevor says about Elizabeth are generic observations about her character. 

 

I think there's also at least a part of me that wants the small shred of humanity buried inside Elizabeth, particularly the affection and respect she has for Brad, to make it unlikely that she would mastermind a plot that would hurt his children so badly. (And while we haven't seen it yet, I won't be surprised if the plot eventually expands to place Darius in harm's way as well.)

 

So, I'm holding out for the revelation of a surprise antagonist.

 

As for Will and Zach, I'm struck by a parallel that I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't dedicated some summer reading time to revisiting the older CAP stories: Will's need to regularly reassess and renegotiate the terms of his relationship with Zach is so reminiscent of how Brad handled his relationship with Robbie, especially while they were in school. If they were aware of these similarities in language, forceful certainty, and elicited reactions, I think it would freak Will out and make Brad chuckle. 

 

Thanks, as always, Mark and team, for keeping us engaged and entertained!

[KevinD]

Maybe it's ABC? Alexandra "the Bitch" Carmichael? She could fit on a couple of levels… She is a widow as ED isn't per the stated technicality above; and then, what better delicious plot could there be then for ABC to frame Elizabeth Danfield for the plot that would hurt "the bastard's" (Brad) family members. How hard would it be for Alexandra to from wherever the hell she is call in a few of her other fellow "we hate Brad" club members and have another go?

[Headstall]

I think this chapter could aptly be called 'Flux' as  we all wait for the story to unfold. I feel like I don't actually know anything yet, even though it appears we do. It looks like whoever is behind this... whoever wanted Zach and Will's relationship to be over... has succeeded. The plan worked in the end. They succeeded in ending JJ's as well. So far, BW has scored 2 to the family's 0. Zach could lose his career and so could JJ... who is target # 3, or #4...

[methodwriter85]

 

I could see him with the Olson twins, but I think JJ would be more likely to target those who were higher up the food chain.

 

Mark, the Olson twins were 17-year old girls who owned a multi-millionaire business media conglomerate. You can't get much higher up than that without being old-money blue bloods, which neither of them are. JJ would probably consider them about equals, but disdain the fact that their fashion stuff is mainly Wal-Mart stuff. He'd probably like their Boho fashion sense in any event. But I'll concede your point that he's a social climber who would try and get in with the truly elite crowd. Still, I don't think he'd stick his nose up at them, especially when you factor in that he "grew up with them" by watching Full House. There might be some residual goodwill on his part towards them for being Michelle Tanner.

 

 

And "me too" - I also enjoy seeing JJ develop in each chapter. Since we obviously have many years to go, I always wondered how JJ would fit in, say in 2014, but I now have more faith in him ...well, maybe faith isn't quite the appropriate word

 

I'm trying to decide whether or not JJ would be horrified by the hipster look, or join in on it. He IS going to live in New York City, and he'll be going to school in Brooklyn. It might rub off on him.

Edited August 24, 2015 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

** Tin Foil Body Armour On -->

 

Okay. This is a full blown, paranoid mode.

 

What if the target of all this WAS Queen Lizzy Dee (ED's rap name)?

 

How do you go against ED? By putting one strong family and all her enemies against her -->

 

Treveor is not all that fond of her so The Black Widow goes to him and bribes him.

The Black Widow knows the Cramptons/Schulter family is strong so cause problem with Will/Zach and JJ/The Earl so they all go against ED.

The Hammer invites Wade to Africa? Another bribe on TBW's part. To separate him from ED's grandchildren.

 

/ Tin Foil

 

Yeah that's all I got on this take because we don't know what JP's role (except he's the head of the family) or Brad's role or even this mysterious Parnel dude's role yet.

[John Prz]

 

 

As for Will and Zach, I'm struck by a parallel that I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't dedicated some summer reading time to revisiting the older CAP stories: Will's need to regularly reassess and renegotiate the terms of his relationship with Zach is so reminiscent of how Brad handled his relationship with Robbie, especially while they were in school. If they were aware of these similarities in language, forceful certainty, and elicited reactions, I think it would freak Will out and make Brad chuckle. 

 

 

I had the same idea. Only applied at what happened around 2000 when Brad forgave Robbie but told him he needed time.

 

 

Maybe it's ABC? Alexandra "the Bitch" Carmichael? She could fit on a couple of levels… She is a widow as ED isn't per the stated technicality above; and then, what better delicious plot could there be then for ABC to frame Elizabeth Danfield for the plot that would hurt "the bastard's" (Brad) family members. How hard would it be for Alexandra to from wherever the hell she is call in a few of her other fellow "we hate Brad" club members and have another go?

 

HOW DID I FORGET ABOUT ABC??!! 

 

The list is getting longer than I belived at first. I wouldn't be surprised if there was also some British hands in this plot.

[Headstall]

** Tin Foil Body Armour On -->

 

Okay. This is a full blown, paranoid mode.

 

What if the target of all this WAS Queen Lizzy Dee (ED's rap name)?

 

How do you go against ED? By putting one strong family and all her enemies against her -->

 

Treveor is not all that fond of her so The Black Widow goes to him and bribes him.

The Black Widow knows the Cramptons/Schulter family is strong so cause problem with Will/Zach and JJ/The Earl so they all go against ED.

The Hammer invites Wade to Africa? Another bribe on TBW's part. To separate him from ED's grandchildren.

 

/ Tin Foil

 

Yeah that's all I got on this take because we don't know what JP's role (except he's the head of the family) or Brad's role or even this mysterious Parnel dude's role yet.

I'm glad I'm not the only paranoid one in the bunch... there are some wild things floating around in my head that make no sense whatsoever... your paranoia is at least rational

[methodwriter85]

So Will is officially setting his foot down about Zach and football. I pretty much thought he would never be able to lead a closeted life with Zach, ala Aaron Rodgers and his "roommate."

 

As for JJ, I find it fascinating that he's pretty much the only CAP narrator we've ever had who actually DOESN'T want to get his slut on. I like that. Keeps him different.

 

I do get the feeling that Mark is easing JJ out of his whole "nearly virginal Disney princess" vibe, though. JJ probably won't ever really become a total slut, but he might find a balance between prude and slut.

Edited August 24, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Northerner]

I just wish that the non-sluts like JJ and Wade would get their slut on a little just for variety. Then, hilarity ensues if the more slutty persons like Will and Matt would try to condemn this. Especially the latter did some seriously slutty stuff when he got it on with JP and Stef before getting involved with Wade.

[Kitt]

. In his conversation with Wade in chapter 12, Trevor denies that Mary Ellen is involved; but when Wade implicates Elizabeth, Trevor doesn't say anything at all. The only things Trevor says about Elizabeth are generic observations about her character. 

 

I think there's also at least a part of me that wants the small shred of humanity buried inside Elizabeth, particularly the affection and respect she has for Brad, to make it unlikely that she would mastermind a plot that would hurt his children so badly.

 

Keep in mind that ED is the woman who had her own daughter beaten to the point of hospitalization in order to further her plans, and had her mother drugged and imprisoned in an a nursing home for the same reasons. I don't think there is anything off limits to the woman!

Maybe it's ABC? Alexandra "the Bitch" Carmichael? She could fit on a couple of levels… She is a widow as ED isn't per the stated technicality above; and then, what better delicious plot could there be then for ABC to frame Elizabeth Danfield for the plot that would hurt "the bastard's" (Brad) family members. How hard would it be for Alexandra to from wherever the hell she is call in a few of her other fellow "we hate Brad" club members and have another go?

While I agree that ABC is quite capable of this sort of chicanery, how would she have ensured Trevor's roll in blackmailing Zack? So far as we know there would be no reason for him to acquiesce to ABC's wishes, while we do know that ED has the goods on him. And then there is the fact that while he did not admit that ED was behind it - he also did not deny it. Had she been innocent why not tell Wade that?

 

 

I have to agree with mmike. There are still too many unknown quantities to be drawing conclusions yet.  It is just a tad too soon to be saying it was ED in the Salon with the black mail envelope.

[impunity]

** Tin Foil Body Armour On -->

 

Okay. This is a full blown, paranoid mode.

 

What if the target of all this WAS Queen Lizzy Dee (ED's rap name)?

 

How do you go against ED? By putting one strong family and all her enemies against her -->

 

Treveor is not all that fond of her so The Black Widow goes to him and bribes him.

The Black Widow knows the Cramptons/Schulter family is strong so cause problem with Will/Zach and JJ/The Earl so they all go against ED.

The Hammer invites Wade to Africa? Another bribe on TBW's part. To separate him from ED's grandchildren.

 

/ Tin Foil

 

Yeah that's all I got on this take because we don't know what JP's role (except he's the head of the family) or Brad's role or even this mysterious Parnel dude's role yet.

 

Someone should probably wrap this entire forum in tinfoil!

[B1ue]

I had the same idea. Only applied at what happened around 2000 when Brad forgave Robbie but told him he needed time.

 

 

 

HOW DID I FORGET ABOUT ABC??!! 

 

The list is getting longer than I belived at first. I wouldn't be surprised if there was also some British hands in this plot.

If so, my money is on Alex's grandfather. He can't have taken Alex screwing around with someone as well known as JJ calmly. Better to lance the situation now, and use the threat of this situation to refocus Alex on his wife and child, rather than waiting for it to develop into a TRULY huge mess.

 

I mean, can you imagine what would have happened if JJ realized his Olympic dream, and then the media caught wind of him shacking up with Alex? Right now, Alex merely has the bad taste to dally with an American. But if he was screwing someone known around the world, however temporarily? And the relationship dating back to when that person was a teenager? That story would never die.

 

Which, hmm. If we're talking enemies of Elizabeth with reach and influence, Nana's name has to be on the list, doesn't it? Screwing with Will doesn't seem to be something she'd do, nor using meth to do it, but JJ would be a legitimate target.

Edited August 26, 2015 by B1ue

[Headstall]

Someone should probably wrap this entire forum in tinfoil!

Okay, so, I just finished making my tinfoil suit. It's double-breasted with an awesome cone hat . Now... since we are all embracing our paranoia... who wants JJ and Alex apart? Who would like to see Will and Zach ended? Who hates, ED, and would love to make her the scapegoat in an evil plan? Who else would have the information on Trevor? Who has incredible, far reaching power? Who is a widow(er)? Who has lost control of his family/children and hates it? Who has been acting erratically? Who has lost his biggest supporter and business ally in Steph? BRAD! I know, I know... it borders on insanity to think Brad capable of hurting his family, but his intentions could be well-meaning, if slightly deranged. Like Will has decided to do with Brad, as in save him from himself, maybe Brad sees it as saving JJ and Will from themselves. He has never approved of Alex, and maybe he sees in Will's relationship, those same things that made his lifelong relationship with Robbie, unbearable at times. Remember that Will was never supposed to find out about why Zach dumped him, and that was paramount. As far as JJ's career, how seriously did Brad ever take it. It's not like he followed his career at all. He didn't even call him when he won 'Worlds'. I believe he was actually oblivious to how JJ did.

 

This is just a tongue in cheek theory I am putting forth, and I'm not saying I believe it... but what if........................??? I will go hide in my tinfoil suit now... I'm sure it actually is ED or another villain behind this :unsure: .........

[John Prz]

If so, my money is on Alex's grandfather. He can't have taken Alex screwing around with someone as well known as JJ calmly. Better to lance the situation now, and use the threat of this situation to refocus Alex on his wife and child, rather than waiting for it to develop into a TRULY huge mess.

 

Which, hmm. If we're talking enemies of Elizabeth with reach and influence, Nana's name has to be on the list, doesn't it? Screwing with Will doesn't seem to be something she'd do, nor using meth to do it, but JJ would be a legitimate target.

 

No I wasn't talking about Elizabeth Danfield enemies but the possible ones. So my list for now is ED, ABC, Parnell guy, Alex Father (because of how he was described previously)...

 

and if we want really paranoic it also could be someone really close, way to close. Someone in China...

as Headstall already proposed

Edited August 26, 2015 by John Prz

[B1ue]

First, I apologize for dreading this up form a week ago, but a couple thigns stuck out at me. 

The drug test wasn't announced until after Will called Wade. Football teams don't arrange their own random drug tests, especially not at UCLA, and it could not be set up quickly on a Sunday. The lab that does the testing would have had to have it set up several days in advance. Karl Dorrell wouldn't even take a phone call from Elizabeth Danfield. She might be able to have Zach's roommate bribed (an easy enough thing for a lawyer who is appealing a drug test result to sniff out), but she would have zero influence into UCLA directly. If Zach had chosen UVA, maybe, not UCLA.

I'm not sure you're correct here. I am admittedly less familiar with the ease and availability of drug testing in 2003, but I do know that in the Los Angeles area, you can get a drug test set up within an hour, anywhere in the city, on zero notice any time day or night, and you could do this as early as 2007. Possibly earlier, but I know for sure this was available in 2007, because I arranged some of them. The results might take a little longer depending on the time and day, but the test itself can literally be arranged at the drop of a hat (don't ask how I am sure about that one, weirdest safety violation ever). There are entire businesses in this area that do nothing but drug testing, and not all of them stick to business hours. In all honesty, I can see at least one scenario where the wheels would be set in motion at least as fast as the story sees to show. "Coach ---, this is the campus police department. We have received evidence that one of your players has been purchasing large amounts of meth, and we believe he is distributing it to the other players. We would like to arrange a drug test of the whole team to see who else might be involved. We are willing to work with you to do this, in order to not cause a bigger scandal than it needs to be, but if you don't move quickly, we will have to arrange for the team to come to our office for a drug test instead of yours. How would you like to proceed?" 

 

You make an excellent point in a later post that all UCLA drug testing is normally done within one facility, but that presupposes that they are shooting for subtlety. This entire operation against Will and Zach is about as subtle as a buzz saw, and about as likely to stay discreet. Whomever is arranging all this, and I would think there has to be someone in LA or close by coordinating it all, doesn't really care about being caught because they know it will all be tied to Trevor anyways. So they wouldn't care if whoever's arm they squeezed did things through the proper channels and with the proper procedures, or even if anything would stick to Zach. In fact, the more energy they can convince Will to expend towards clearing Zach's name, the better, and that wouldn't work if the case was ironclad against him. The entire point is to make a lot of noise in order to distract Will and everyone else from trying to stamp out JJ's problems. And its working.

 

What ISN'T working is that everyone, from Wade to Will and on down, sees JJ as someone who lets other people solve his problems for him. They are taking away his supports because they think he won't make moves on his own, or if he does they'll be ineffective and easily deflected. In essence, they see JJ as Mary Ellen 2.0, and its going to be very interesting when they figure out this isn't the case.

Edited August 26, 2015 by B1ue

[impunity]

If so, my money is on Alex's grandfather. He can't have taken Alex screwing around with someone as well known as JJ calmly. Better to lance the situation now, and use the threat of this situation to refocus Alex on his wife and child, rather than waiting for it to develop into a TRULY huge mess.

 

I mean, can you imagine what would have happened if JJ realized his Olympic dream, and then the media caught wind of him shacking up with Alex? Right now, Alex merely has the bad taste to dally with an American. But if he was screwing someone known around the world, however temporarily? And the relationship dating back to when that person was a teenager? That story would never die.

 

Which, hmm. If we're talking enemies of Elizabeth with reach and influence, Nana's name has to be on the list, doesn't it? Screwing with Will doesn't seem to be something she'd do, nor using meth to do it, but JJ would be a legitimate target.

 

Ok, I would buy the Duke's trying to split up JJ and Alex, but not with the paparazzi. I think a scandal of that sort, that brings into question Alex's sexuality, his marriage and, by extension, the legitimacy of his son, would be far too dangerous to invite onto the front lawn. Not to mention that it'd be in poor taste.

 

I also agree that Nana has the money and influence to target ED, but she wouldn't do so at the expense of anyone in JP's family.

 

Okay, so, I just finished making my tinfoil suit. It's double-breasted with an awesome cone hat . Now... since we are all embracing our paranoia... who wants JJ and Alex apart? Who would like to see Will and Zach ended? Who hates, ED, and would love to make her the scapegoat in an evil plan? Who else would have the information on Trevor? Who has incredible, far reaching power? Who is a widow(er)? Who has lost control of his family/children and hates it? Who has been acting erratically? Who has lost his biggest supporter and business ally in Steph? BRAD! I know, I know... it borders on insanity to think Brad capable of hurting his family, but his intentions could be well-meaning, if slightly deranged. Like Will has decided to do with Brad, as in save him from himself, maybe Brad sees it as saving JJ and Will from themselves. He has never approved of Alex, and maybe he sees in Will's relationship, those same things that made his lifelong relationship with Robbie, unbearable at times. Remember that Will was never supposed to find out about why Zach dumped him, and that was paramount. As far as JJ's career, how seriously did Brad ever take it. It's not like he followed his career at all. He didn't even call him when he won 'Worlds'. I believe he was actually oblivious to how JJ did.

 

This is just a tongue in cheek theory I am putting forth, and I'm not saying I believe it... but what if........................??? I will go hide in my tinfoil suit now... I'm sure it actually is ED or another villain behind this :unsure: .........

 

Love the suit! Now you are both protected and stylish shiny! I should probably start working on one. Or find someone more creative (and crafty!) to make it for me.

 

Very interesting idea about Brad.  I hadn't considered that, but it certainly has merit. I personally am sticking with the theory that Brad is another target, possibly the primary one or co-primary with ED, of an as yet unidentified villain. But Brad as the BW(er) definitely warrants more speculation. 

 

Edit: Also, am I the only person here who doesn't trust Marc?

Edited August 26, 2015 by impunity

[impunity]

I know for sure this was available in 2007, because I arranged some of them. The results might take a little longer depending on the time and day, but the test itself can literally be arranged at the drop of a hat (don't ask how I am sure about that one, weirdest safety violation ever).

 

Ok, now I really want to know.   Couldn't you just emulate Mike and spill all your dirty secrets?

 

(still B1ue)

What ISN'T working is that everyone, from Wade to Will and on down, sees JJ as someone who lets other people solve his problems for him. They are taking away his supports because they think he won't make moves on his own, or if he does they'll be ineffective and easily deflected. In essence, they see JJ as Mary Ellen 2.0, and its going to be very interesting when they figure out this isn't the case.

 

This I agree with 100%! And I can't wait to see what JJ comes up with.   

Edited August 26, 2015 by impunity