Writer responsibility

[Sam Wyer]

Hello

 

This stems from a comment on my current (and first) story being posted here on GA.  In the story, the two protagonists have unprotected (and arguably unsafe) sex.   Some were, quite literally "appalled" that this would happen.  Others have since been defensive of my choices.  And I'm left not being sure what I feel, so I though it might be a worthwhile discussion here.  As a writer, what responsibility do I have?  Do I have a 'moral' responsibility to model pro-social behaviours?  Do I have a responsibility to point readers towards sources of support around significant themes or issues that might come up?  Am I only responsible to the characters and doing them justice in telling their story as well as I can?  Is it my place to take a view on this at all?  I have a lot of questions without many firm answers.

 

When I wrote the story in question here it was my first ever attempt at fiction, and was most definitely not thinking about these questions, I was 'just' telling a story.  And now, a couple of years on, I have mixed feelings about what my responsibilites are.

 

EDIT: spelling, as always

Edited August 31, 2017 by Sam Wyer

[FormerMember4]

You can post warning! However; not your responsibility. Its a damn story, readers responsibility in the real world.

[CassieQ]

16 minutes ago, BlindAmbition said:

You can post warning! However; not your responsibility. Its a damn story, readers responsibility in the real world.

I don't know if I would even post a warning.  

 

I think a lot of it is about context and characters.  If the characters that Sam wrote want to have unprotected sex, that is fine.  That is a choice that his characters made.  People can debate that as being a good or bad choice, but I don't think an author has a moral responsibility to write "safe sex" into a story where sex happens.  I think the only responsibility a writer has is to tell the story that they want to tell.   

Edited August 31, 2017 by CassieQ
added a word

[Puppilull]

I think you should tell your story. There's no obligation to be educational. As long as the characters' actions make sense, it's ok by me. I'm actually quite fed up with reading stories where the protagonists are so perfect it's ridiculous. Never make a mistake. Never falter or stumble, except in some minor way to create "drama" that is quickly resolved. You don't have to write a full on villain or emotionally broken people, just make them human. 

 

So, people have unprotected sex. Perhaps it's not the smartest move, but it's not so upsetting you should stop reading a story over it. And the writer has no responsibility for readers reenacting the scene. Have we so totally given up on our fellow man's ability to think? Are we such sheep?

[Parker Owens]

16 minutes ago, Puppilull said:

I think you should tell your story. There's no obligation to be educational. As long as the characters' actions make sense, it's ok by me. I'm actually quite fed up with reading stories where the protagonists are so perfect it's ridiculous. Never make a mistake. Never falter or stumble, except in some minor way to create "drama" that is quickly resolved. You don't have to write a full on villain or emotionally broken people, just make them human. 

 

So, people have unprotected sex. Perhaps it's not the smartest move, but it's not so upsetting you should stop reading a story over it. And the writer has no responsibility for readers reenacting the scene. Have we so totally given up on our fellow man's ability to think? Are we such sheep?

 

Wow, do I agree with this post! You have no obligation to model 'right' behavior. Unprotected sex isn't morally wrong unless  you know you're going to hurt someone else by engaging in it. It's pretty foolish, and most people take precautions. But it's what makes sense to the actual characters that matters. It is a story, after all. Post a warning, if that makes a difference to your readers, but honestly, everyone ought to be able to see it's fiction. 

[FormerMember4]

I understand why you ask this question. I only think warning needed on abuse, drugs, violence, rape, suicide. I also put on my D/s lifestyle. I think an author should be sensitive. However; political correctness has gone to the extreme in our society.

[Former Member]

It`s your story...Right? 

You just rate it mature if there`s explicit content, and that`s all your responsibility. 

Maybe give a warning at the beginning of the chapter.

It all feels a bit...confusing though...Are you responsible to satisfy readers, or write a story. So...Since you`re writing, and already have positive feedback, you`re probably doing a great job with the content, so...I think just go ahead with writing it the way you feel like.  

[Sam Wyer]

So it seems that people mostly think it's story/character driven - which I can understand, and am minded to agree with.

But...

There's a reader who is (presumably) genuinely feeling affronted.  Yes, there's positive feedback too, and apparently much more than the negative (although there's presumably an inherent bias in that, as people are less likely to make the effort to leave negative feedback, they just stop reading and move on).  I'm not suggestion that we should aim to please every reader every time, that's obviously crazy talk.  But isn't there any sense of balance between responsibility towards the story/characters and to the reader?  Ideologically, I think the answer I prefer is 'no'.  But is that good enough?

[Brayon]

I'm shamelessly going to plug my Blog post.

What this topic and my blog post have in common is the same thing. People are too Politically Correct, and some readers can not let Entertainment, be Entertainment. So what if two characters have Unprotective Sex? So what if one is a Racist, or Homophobe, or Agesist, Ableist, Heterophobe, etc. it's for Entertainment. Not everything has to be some stunning critique on the Human Condition.

 

To me, in America at least, we've become an overly analytic society, where everything has to be for a cause.

[Mikiesboy]

You aren't writing an educational handbook on preventing the spread of AIDS or STDs.  My husband and i have unprotected sex .. i am HIV+ and he takes PREP.  It was His choice.  People need to do what is right for them in your stories and in real-life. 

 

I write my characters as who they are.. they are far from perfect, my god the last thing i want is perfect. I want human.  Thats what i want to read too. If you write about some evil scum low life, i want all of it, make it real.  The is so much white-washed laundered crap out there, something honest and real is a breath of fresh air. 

 

oh and hello Sam, btw!

[Sam Wyer]

2 minutes ago, Mikiesboy said:

I write my characters as who they are.. they are far from perfect, my god the last thing i want is perfect. I want human.  Thats what i want to read too. If you write about some evil scum low life, i want all of it, make it real.  The is so much white-washed laundered crap out there, something honest and real is a breath of fresh air. 

 

oh and hello Sam, btw!

 

Yes, this is my instinctive response too, I prefer 'real' to 'perfect' every time.  I guess the feedback I got just made me question this, and that's not a bad thing.

 

And hello   I keep seeing you around, not literally of course.

[jkwsquirrel]

Honestly, if we're looking to our artists and writers to find advice on safe sex, we're looking in the wrong place.  If your characters want to fuck, then let them fuck.  If you want to teach a lesson on safe sex in the process, then by all means go ahead, that can be art as well.  The main thing is, is it what your characters would do?  It's always about the characters and plot first.  Now, there are some issues that may hurt readers, like suicide, rape, sexual violence, the rough issues.  Those kind of things, it's just an act of kindness to let readers know you're going into the deep waters with a warning up front.  Don't want to spring something like that on folks who might be harmed.  But sex, on a gay writing site, needs to be sterilized and restrained by the hetero-normative condom cops?  Nonsense!  Write your story your way, my friend.

[Mikiesboy]

Just now, Sam Wyer said:

 

Yes, this is my instinctive response too, I prefer 'real' to 'perfect' every time.  I guess the feedback I got just made me question this, and that's not a bad thing.

 

And hello   I keep seeing you around, not literally of course.

i'm tim .. yes.. i'm a regular here..lol.  this question has come up a few times and it's cool to talk about it.  But i'm writer, not an educator and i think it was jp @BlindAmbition who said being PC has been taken too far.  Perhaps we should write a story where everyone lives in a bubble, where there's no dirt, or cooties..LOL  ... yawn. 

[Sam Wyer]

2 minutes ago, Mikiesboy said:

Perhaps we should write a story where everyone lives in a bubble, where there's no dirt, or cooties..LOL  ... yawn. 

 

Well yes, there's always a place for fantasy. 

[FormerMember4]

@Mikiesboy thinks like me. I want real. If you tag everything, its like creating a manufactured fake porno. If you don't like direction/theme of my writing. Then feckin don't read it. I write for myself first and foremost.

[Kitt]

Bottom line here is the readers up in arms over unprotected sex are trying to force you to become the Sex Ed teacher. Is there a reason for unprotected sex in the story? We're the characters caught up in the moment?

 

You are not responsible to teach the ( m/m fiction ) readers moral responsibility. 

[Former Member]

I still think a warning in the preface to the chapter (or in the story description) is advisable. As I said earlier in the Comments you referred to above, I don’t think people will necessarily agree with me. I feel my suggestion is a middle path where characters do as the authors feel they should, but a suggestion is made to the readers that their actions might not be advisable. A reference to safe sex behavior is all that I think is necessary, further details should be apparent to most readers.

 

Note: I was not the reader who was “appalled.”

[Puppilull]

I've had a few readers get well and truly angry and upset with me for writing my characters like I do. It did surprise me at first and I even thought about apologising, but instead decided to try and explain. I lost a reader, but we parted on good terms. 

[Mikiesboy]

5 minutes ago, Puppilull said:

I've had a few readers get well and truly angry and upset with me for writing my characters like I do. It did surprise me at first and I even thought about apologising, but instead decided to try and explain. I lost a reader, but we parted on good terms. 

Your characters always felt honest to me. Even if i don't like them and i shouldn't necessarily like them, but i still want to read them.  we don't like every single person we meet in the real world do we? 

[FormerMember4]

14 minutes ago, Puppilull said:

I've had a few readers get well and truly angry and upset with me for writing my characters like I do. It did surprise me at first and I even thought about apologising, but instead decided to try and explain. I lost a reader, but we parted on good terms. 

If it's the person I think. He has left 4 other authors stories. Very narrow idea on what world is.

Edited August 31, 2017 by BlindAmbition

[Krista]

If it fits within the context of the story and characters, then you're only writing the story you want to write. When readers start dictating where and what your story is, then it is no longer your work and it most likely will not be finished. Earlier in my writing, I let readers dictate what they liked... and that sort of writing nearly drove me to quit completely.

 

To a point, if you want your story to be a lesson for living, as there are movies/films, novels, and such that do that. Then yeah, you are a bit morally obligated to tell a certain story. If you are writing a story that you want to tell, but not put yourself on any soapbox, then no. You owe the readers no such thing. You can't stay within everyone's comfort zones, there is just no way to realistically do that. 

 

One of my favorite published YA authors second novel in a series felt like a Social/Political statement, with a little fiction mixed in. To me, that is far worse than characters that live outside of some people's comfort zones. It would have been fine. as well, if her first novel went along those lines, but it didn't. She lost the entertainment factor and what entertainment she put in it (so far, I haven't finished the book) has been pointless.

 

So if you're writing what you want to write... then I wouldn't worry too much. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Krista

[Sam Wyer]

Thanks people, it's really useful to get your wider perspective on this.

[LJCC]

Would I want my character to say, "I'll just gargle and brush my teeth cause my breath's stale. Hold on to your boner for a while." Or "You better flush it clean with enema before I stick it down there...unlike the last time." Or "Can you not bite my shaft? You're doing it the wrong way." Or "Turn the volume up. The neighbour's are sleeping. And lock the door before we...you know. Oh and lights off." Or "I don't like this position. I'm getting cramps. Can you move your ass a bit." Or "Did you just fall asleep while I'm giving you a blowjob? Seriously!" Or "I wanna try this whole bondage thing but I got whiplash when we did it in the swing." Or "Honey, I wanna try an orgy but I'm afraid they might steal something at home." Or "This nipple tassle just gave my nips a skin rash." Or "This condom is too big...Bj then?"

 

Art imitates life. Yes. But too much aspect of life becomes a drama. And readers who provide much drama with unprotected sex requires the finesse to try and have sex in a rodeo. As Ellen said, "It's appealing...But no."

 

You're writing a Non-Fiction story...which means it's not real. So if readers want realistic sex with the ministrations of what real M/M sex requires...the prelude to every sex scene should be, "Have you cleaned down there?"

[TetRefine]

People have dangerous, unprotected sex all the time in real life, and more then a lot of people think. You are writing a fiction story I presume, so you really have no obligation to portray the “ideal” or give warning. Your only obligation is to tell a story the way you want to. 

[Carlos Hazday]

On 8/31/2017 at 5:32 PM, droughtquake said:

I still think a warning in the preface to the chapter (or in the story description) is advisable. As I said earlier in the Comments you referred to above, I don’t think people will necessarily agree with me. I feel my suggestion is a middle path where characters do as the authors feel they should, but a suggestion is made to the readers that their actions might not be advisable. A reference to safe sex behavior is all that I think is necessary, further details should be apparent to most readers.

 

Note: I was not the reader who was “appalled.”

 

Warnings suck. This is just more liberal political correctness. If anyone finds something they don't like in a story, they should stop reading. And if as an author I don't like comments by readers I should stop publishing. What the hell happened to personal responsibility and thinking for ourselves?