Black Widow (Story Discussion)

[Daddydavek]

Heh...  Posted at 4:20, huh?    

Only you would catch that!

[B1ue]

JJ is 30. He's ancient in terms of the figure skating world. I can't see him putting himself where he's around a bunch of 19-year old twinks, and reminded of his own lost youth. It'd be enough to send him to the doctor for yet another botox injection while drinking his favorite green apple martini.

 

Anyway, I love love love the whole background plot of JP deciding that he wants to be involved with turning Claremont Tech into a viable university. It works on a lot of levels- JP's commitment to improving the fortunes of Claremont, and the 1990's/2000's college construction boom in general. With the Millennials hitting college in droves, people were expanding schools to take advantage of that.

You might be surprised. I'm continuously told I look younger than I really am, which has reached the point of annoying me when I hear it. My hair is not greying fast enough, apparently. So not all of us want to look 12 once we're past 30.

 

Where I think JJ might be envious is at their ability to perform. No amount of botox is going to recapture his technique. No plastic surgeon is going to restore the ability of his joints. And unless he dedicates himself to staying in condition, no amount of apple martinis are going to let him shake off minor falls and bruises the way he did at 16. He'll still be able to perform well, if he wants to and works at it. But well is not "among the best in the world."

 

But he also might consider the amount of crap he went through at 16, and that his fellow 16 year olds lived through, and order that martini anyways, serene that his dink and his companion won't affect his career.

 

 

I'm kind of liking him more as a character lately. I imagine everyone slowly realizing that, no, he's not to be overlooked or taken as weak. He's just as willful as the rest of them, and can dish it out.

 

I also imagine Will sending him angry kitten gif's during their late twenties, with a cute little gatito captioned "I am full of rage and destruction!" Because no one annoys you like your little brother. We receive manuals on the subject.

Edited April 15, 2016 by B1ue

[methodwriter85]

You might be surprised. I'm continuously told I look younger than I really am, which has reached the point of annoying me when I hear it. My hair is not greying fast enough, apparently. So not all of us want to look 12 once we're past 30.

 

Where I think JJ might be envious is at their ability to perform. No amount of botox is going to recapture his technique. No plastic surgeon is going to restore the ability of his joints. And unless he dedicates himself to staying in condition, no amount of apple martinis are going to let him shake off minor falls and bruises the way he did at 16. He'll still be able to perform well, if he wants to and works at it. But well is not "among the best in the world."

 

But he also might consider the amount of crap he went through at 16, and that his fellow 16 year olds lived through, and order that martini anyways, serene that his dink and his companion won't affect his career.

 

 

I'm kind of liking him more as a character lately. I imagine everyone slowly realizing that, no, he's not to be overlooked or taken as weak. He's just as willful as the rest of them, and can dish it out.

 

I also imagine Will sending him angry kitten gif's during their late twenties, with a cute little gatito captioned "I am full of rage and destruction!" Because no one annoys you like your little brother. We receive manuals on the subject.

 

Will seems barely invested in pop culture. Do you really see him getting into memes? I picture him  as the guy who's the last one to get on Facebook or find YouTube. He IM's and emails because it's a convenient communication tool, but I can't see him being *into* internet culture.

 

As for the other stuff, it gets annoying when people give me this shocked look when I tell them I'm 30, and I just want to roll my eyes so hard every time I'm carded. (Which is  basically any time I'm at a bar where I haven't become  regular.) But eh, in JJ's case, I can see him as a Botox junkie before age 25. I think that's just his way- he wants to look immaculate, and I can picture him being one of those types to get pre-emptive botox.

 

As for this chapter, I'm a little bit pissed at JJ's decision, because Daisy and I had basically planned JJ's career out to the 2005-2006 season, but whatever. JJ's reasoning for leaving now was pretty sound, and honestly, it was A LOT of work to research and get things right when it came to JJ's career. It also kept JJ pretty isolated, and Mark was constantly having us change the timeline that we set up because he needed JJ to be there for whatever reason. I just think Mark got sick of doing it, and honestly I felt like this decision was pretty "earned"- it doesn't feel abrupt or coming out of nowhere. I also remember thinking when I was reading The Streak that JJ didn't really seem to LOVE figure skating. He loved the competition, and he loved that he was good, but he honestly didn't seem to love the sport itself all that much. There was never really that much passion in his performances other than making sure he was better than the other people.

 

I also think that Mark just wasn't going to keep Disney JJ going for much longer. He's still there, but not in full-force like before. I still can't see him becoming wild, but as Blue said once, a pure virginal character just isn't going to cut it for a saga like CAP. Therefore, Mark needed to get rid of the reasons for JJ holding himself back from behaving like a normal horny teenaged guy.

 

Finally,teen guys haaaattttteeeedddd John Mayer. They like seriously hated him. That made the ending of the chapter so much fun.

Edited April 15, 2016 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

If you read the reviews and noticed Pvt Tim's comment -->

 

$88 Million

 

http://m.sfgate.com/realestate/article/88-million-Los-Altos-Hills-estate-house-tech-6674008.php#photo-9056584

Edited April 16, 2016 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

This was Mark from his replies to Chapter 28 reviews:

 

 

 

JJ is a tortured soul, and destined to remain that way in my evil hands.

 

I always pictured JJ as eventually ending up as a cool and calm, collected socialite making witty, funny remarks as he observes society around him while he sips his favorite martini, a la Truman Capote. (But much, much prettier.) He just needs to work through his teen angst bullshit first.

 

I always thought that it was interesting that, as self-absorbed as JJ is, he tends to be pretty on-the-money when he makes observations about people, brutally so. It's in stark contrast to Will, who pretty much always wants to believe the best of everybody he meets. (He's not naive, but he's not always that sharp when it comes to judging people.)

Edited April 23, 2016 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Will seems barely invested in pop culture. Do you really see him getting into memes? I picture him  as the guy who's the last one to get on Facebook or find YouTube. He IM's and emails because it's a convenient communication tool, but I can't see him being *into* internet culture.

I think you're forgetting how convenient facebook was during its early years when it was restricted to college students. It was a great tool when you needed to find someone in your class and organize a study session, or even better, find someone who is in the class NOW with the same professor who can tell you to avoid the class until someone else teaches it, or to sign up for next quarter. This was especially true of larger schools, where there could be 600 other students in your class but you might know 3 are there, and never notice that 15 other people you also know are taking it too.

 

But, anyways, I don't think he'll get invested for his own sake. I think he'll seek out "Things that will annoy JJ," and send them on to JJ with a note attached "another picture of you on the 'net today!"

 

 

Hmm, Buzz. What are you doing?

 

All three of the brothers need more experience with kids. Yeah, JJ shouldn't have grabbed Maddy like that, but neither should WIll and Darius have just taken her at her word. Not that the conversation would have gone any better any other way. Even if he hadn't grabbed her, Maddy would have cried "JJ yelled at me," and both Darius and Will would have thundered in with the same righteous indignation that totally ignores that none of that would have happened if someone was watching the kids in the first place. Tiffany and Wade probably thought they were safe enough running around the house, but that house is hardly baby-proofed.

 

Unlike several commentators, it totally worked for me that JJ slept with Alex again. I mean, he hasn't forgiven Alex, or expressed a desire to get back together. They're having a holiday, and in a couple days Alex will go back to his wife and neither of them will contact the other until they absolutely have to again. Look at how JJ describes their afternoon:

 

 

“It’s good to see you too,” I said, smiling back.  Then he moved in and kissed me, and I responded enthusiastically.  That led to a really amazing fuck.  It was amazing how well Alex read my body, and how well I responded to his moves. 

No stars in his eyes, no descriptions of tenderness. Just fun and friendly. I think he'll be fine, but of course we'll have to see how it works out when Alex is ready to leave.

[methodwriter85]

I think you're forgetting how convenient facebook was during its early years when it was restricted to college students. It was a great tool when you needed to find someone in your class and organize a study session, or even better, find someone who is in the class NOW with the same professor who can tell you to avoid the class until someone else teaches it, or to sign up for next quarter. This was especially true of larger schools, where there could be 600 other students in your class but you might know 3 are there, and never notice that 15 other people you also know are taking it too.

 

But, anyways, I don't think he'll get invested for his own sake. I think he'll seek out "Things that will annoy JJ," and send them on to JJ with a note attached "another picture of you on the 'net today!"

 

 

Hmm, Buzz. What are you doing?

 

Unlike several commentators, it totally worked for me that JJ slept with Alex again. I mean, he hasn't forgiven Alex, or expressed a desire to get back together. They're having a holiday, and in a couple days Alex will go back to his wife and neither of them will contact the other until they absolutely have to again. Look at how JJ describes their afternoon:

No stars in his eyes, no descriptions of tenderness. Just fun and friendly. I think he'll be fine, but of course we'll have to see how it works out when Alex is ready to leave.

 

I'm going to admit that I didn't get my Facebook account until 2007, and I didn't get my Myspace until 2006. I didn't go to college until fall 2005, and I didn't have a digital camera or a cell phone camera, so I didn't create a social media account for myself until probably the end of my freshmen year. So I'm pretty hazy about those days, and again, I didn't do Facebook until '07. The restriction was still there, but not for that much longer- I think it was gone by '08. (Weirdly enough, I was a pretty early youth adopter of Twitter- I got on in 2009 before it really exploded, and I started using YouTube around January 2006.) Mainly, Facebook and Myspace was pretty much just for checking out pictures of guys in my classes that I thought were hot. LOL. (God, a polo shirt and a leather hemp choker on a cute guy can still get me going.)

 

Whatever Buzz is doing, it's probably not in the best interest of the family. LOL.

 

As for JJ, I kind of have to agree with you. I don't think JJ is like Will, who basically had to be beaten over the head several times with how horrible a boyfriend Tony really was until he finally got it. JJ really got it when Alex threw him to the wolves for MaryEllen's plot. So now the stars are out of his eyes, and Alex is now just a hot ex he can hook up with.

[PrivateTim]

I think you're forgetting how convenient facebook was during its early years when it was restricted to college students.

 

All you really needed was a .edu email, which I still had (and have) from Cal through my generous donations

[Mark Arbour]

All you really needed was a .edu email, which I still had (and have) from Cal through my generous donations

 

That's true, but it really was largely restricted to the academic community, despite a few interlopers. :-)

[impunity]

I last had a .edu account in 2002 (uchicago ). I stayed off Facebook until 2010.

Edited April 25, 2016 by impunity

[Headstall]

I last had a .edu account in 2002 (uchicago ). I stayed off Facebook until 2010.

I only went on Facebook as another way to interact with my kids... really, it annoys the hell out of me... some people need to get a life

[mmike1969]

Chapter 30:

 

 

 

4 people on the flight log. Pilot, co-pilot, Mr Dalby and unknown.

 

You finally killed Tony!!! Happy now Pvt Tim?

 

Not really. You killed JP didn't you?

 

 

 

In case you missed it: The cliffhanger was not that Brad didn't die.

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by mmike1969

[Timothy M.]

(From Daddydavek's Chapter 30 Review)

If Brad was not on the plane, then why has he not called Will?

Waiting for the other shoe to drop...

Reply from Mark Arbour (author)

I'm sure that Will is wondering that same thing, and I'm sure he's pretty pissed off about it.

 

Does Brad even know about the crash? If he's on his way to the clandestine meeting with his half-brother, he may not be available. I'm rather wondering why Stef didn't call Will immediately.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Timothy M.

[PrivateTim]

Chapter 30:

 

 

 

4 people on the flight log. Pilot, co-pilot, Mr Dalby and unknown.

 

You finally killed Tony!!! Happy now Pvt Tim?

 

Not really. You killed JP didn't you?

 

 

 

In case you missed it: The cliffhanger was not that Brad didn't die.

 

 

Oh that it were true

[Timothy M.]

Oh that it were true

 

Which of the victims mentioned do you wish were true?

I'd be     about the first name.

[PrivateTim]

Which of the victims mentioned do you wish were true?

I'd be     about the first name.

 

Did you read the spoiler??

[Timothy M.]

Did you read the spoiler??

 

yes, and there were two suggestions of alternative victims.

 

 

 

I'd prefer if JP didn't die yet, but Tony can go to Hell.

 

 

 

But Mark actually said in one of his replies, that there were only three people on board the plane.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Timothy M.

[mmike1969]

That makes sense. If you are trying to deceive people from where you are going, have your name on a flight log going somewhere else.

 

Still feel cheated on calling the pilot and copilot as TWO of the deaths.

[impunity]

Since we're speculating, and as I appear to be able to influence which characters Mark kills off, I'm going to suggest ... Maddy!

 

There's no room for whiny children in this story.     

[Headstall]

Since we're speculating, and as I appear to be able to influence which characters Mark kills off, I'm going to suggest ... Maddy!

 

There's no room for whiny children in this story.     

:o

[Drew Espinosa]

Since we're speculating, and as I appear to be able to influence which characters Mark kills off, I'm going to suggest ... Maddy!

 

There's no room for whiny children in this story.     

Come now, Maddy isn't being whiny, she's being bratty

[B1ue]

Well, I guess Admiral Carmichael called for a pow-wow at the perfect time, as it seems to have saved Brad's life.

 

..or did it? Was the good admiral in on it, and they missed the plane switch? o.O

[Headstall]

Well, I guess Admiral Carmichael called for a pow-wow at the perfect time, as it seems to have saved Brad's life.

 

..or did it? Was the good admiral in on it, and they missed the plane switch? o.O

Oh ... good question... Brad could still be heading to danger... da da da

[methodwriter85]

Come now, Maddy isn't being whiny, she's being bratty

 

There are a lot of things Mark is willing to do, but killing off children is not one of them. The closest he got were Billy Crampton and Shane something-or-other, and they were already 15. Maddy just shy of 3 years old in any event.

 

Anyway...the talent show stuff. It's really funny to see this stuff in here, because we haven't really done much with high school stuff in awhile. Will doesn't really a give a shit about his part in the high school social scene as he's too busy jetting around to Boystown parties and being a real estate mogul, and JJ hasn't attended high school since 9th grade as he was too busy reaching his goal of becoming a figure skating champ. It was funny to be reminded that John and Marie are very much into it, which is just so normal for that age.

 

Of course, John and Marie had the closest-to-normal upbringing of the legacy teen characters on the show. They were rich, but they also came from the only real nuclear family unit.

 

 

But let's move on to story based issues. I still believe you're side-lining JJ only more, by detaching him from skating and inserting him in such a steriotypically gay scene as the fashion scene.

 

At some point in the near future I hope you will allow for Jays to show he's actually older than He-who-must-not-be-named. I don't expect that to happen without professional counselling for JJ; to be honest, in a well-to-do family such as the Crampton-Schluters, his psychiatric evaluation could have been kept secret, even in his skating career.

 

I honestly thought that Mark felt like JJ was detached from the general storyline BECAUSE of his figure skating career, and why he seemed to work out a very methodical and very organic way of ending JJ's career and moving him into other things. It was a lot of work, and a lot of research, and Mark would constantly have us change up the timeline when we'd tell him that, "No, JJ's actually got to be in Scotland" when he wanted him in California for a reason. This gives Mark a lot more latitude about being able to use JJ without having to explain which competition in which country he's at.

 

As for the fashion stuff; I mean it's been pretty clear that JJ loves this stuff, but I don't really think Mark's moving him into becoming a designer or something like that. JJ's more along the lines of someone who knows what looks good and advises the fashion magazine editor, without really taking it to something formal. I think JJ's right now kind of just flitting around, seeing how things fit- I can't picture himself getting too heavy into anything particular right now after his very intense 5-year career.

Edited April 29, 2016 by methodwriter85

[Kitt]

Might be nice for the kid to finish high school befor embarking on a new high profile career.