readers Readers, What Do You Skip?

[xyz]

On the topic of spelling errors, I would say that today there's really no excuse for making egregious and amateurish spelling errors, no matter how Alpha the manuscript. If you want someone to read and review your work, then you owe it to your readers to check spelling. There are just too many embedded tools and even 3rd party apps (and context-sensitive apps) for catching errors, even for authors with a sophisticated vocabulary in their creative toolbox. Nothing will stop an agent, publisher, or contest judge quicker than a careless transposition ('wierd') or misplaced homonym ('your the best'). And, from my point of view, spelling due diligence isn't just a fussy academic concern; as a reader, I want to forget about the mechanics of the author's writing and enter his or her world. A misspelling is a stone on the path, a banana peel, a crack in the pavement that makes me stumble and momentarily forget where I was. No author wants that. 

[xyz]

With new non-narrative forms of fiction emerging, it seems many writers are playing fast and easy with POV. How do you handle POV shifts in your stories? Do you play it straight and keep to one narrative voice, "float" POVs among characters, shift viewpoints among your characters with each chapter? Or do you just throw your story elements to the wind and hope that one of your characters figures it out?

 

Here’s a useful POV infographic:

http://www.veronicasicoe.com/blog/2013/03/my-ultimate-pov-guide-with-graphics-and-examples/

Edited January 4, 2018 by Glen730
Added info

[LJCC]

2 hours ago, Glen730 said:

With new non-narrative forms of fiction emerging, it seems many writers are playing fast and easy with POV. How do you handle POV shifts in your stories? Do you play it straight and keep to one narrative voice, "float" POVs among characters, shift viewpoints among your characters with each chapter? Or do you just throw your story elements to the wind and hope that one of your characters figures it out?

 

With the current story I'm writing, I'm using a 3rd POV Omniscient who uses 2nd POV, as part of the introduction, then switches back to 3rd POV and 2nd POV if the narrator feels like imparting some words of wisdom. Took me 2 months to figure out how to make the 1st chapter cause for me it was mindfck.

 

In addition, my narrator is the 'Man in the sky' who head hops from time to time, to which I found integral to how my story interplays but also a very dangerous territory IMO.

 

And I've always imagined the story to be read like a movie. With Jonathan Price playing the titular role of the 'Man in the sky' literally narrating the story inside my head.

 

I've even imitated the old english accent inflections when I'm reading the chapter so as not to break character. Because my narrator is a character. And...It's not fun to write it because the narrator in the story per se literally is the omnscient being, so I've had A LOT of editing cuts, paragraph per paragraph just so I won't get lost in my own narrator's POV.

 

And to be honest, I've never tried 1st person POV. I get too emotional with my characters so I tend to prefer 3rd POV for minimal contact cause I'm clingy.

[xyz]

Sounds very challenging. Would like to see how you accomplish this when you're ready to share. 

[CassieQ]

I found another thing that makes me skip or stop reading.  Continuity errors.  Lynn Flewelling wrote some of my favorite books (The Tamir Triad) and the first three books of her Nightunner series are excellent, but the last three have had minor and major continuity flaws.  It has really turned me off reading her books altogether, which is sad, because I used to really enjoy them.  

[Headstall]

3 hours ago, CassieQ said:

I found another thing that makes me skip or stop reading.  Continuity errors.  Lynn Flewelling wrote some of my favorite books (The Tamir Triad) and the first three books of her Nightunner series are excellent, but the last three have had minor and major continuity flaws.  It has really turned me off reading her books altogether, which is sad, because I used to really enjoy them.  

I loved the Nightrunner series. I have The White Road downloaded on my Kobo Arc, but I haven't read much of it yet... maybe I shouldn't bother because continuity flaws bother me too.  

[CassieQ]

22 hours ago, Headstall said:

I loved the Nightrunner series. I have The White Road downloaded on my Kobo Arc, but I haven't read much of it yet... maybe I shouldn't bother because continuity flaws bother me too.  

The White Road isn't too bad, the worst errors were in Shadow's Return, but if you've gotten past those, you should be good.  They came up again in Casket of Souls...apparently she either couldn't remember or decided to change the colors in the Street of Lights and I'm just like

Edited January 1, 2018 by CassieQ

[IBEX]

First, English ist NOT my first language. I've been reading english for fun and relaxation since my school days. In my professional life a lot of literature also is in English. I work with lots of people from different nationalities, English being the common language, be my opposites native speakers or not. In a story cannot discern by dialect where a character is from. Sure there are trigger words that would indicate GB, AUS, US origins, but that's it. That said, I seem to get a different feel from Canadian, AUS-NZ, GB or US stories. At times I want something aussie for example. I wish I could search stories by nationalities of their authors.

 

What I skip are lengthy sex scenes. I have read plenty from smut to high literature, done it all myself, so there is rarely now a description that can hold my interest. In particular NOT with fancy/silly/flowery...  words for the involved anatomical parts. Unless specific acrobatics or kink are involved it's the same old anyway. So rather describe specific emotions/feelings involved, that are new and move the character and story along. Just recently I read a spin-off story of a few chapters - and at the end asked myself why? I even got the feel the author himself   l did not know where to go with it. A few chapters of repetitive, over descriptive declarations of undying love and an endless over the top loving fuckfest.... skip it.

 

Poor grammar. as others have stated here before, an error riddled story description is a sure harbinger of a poor story. It is so easy to have the mere spelling checked - if the author cannot be bothered to have that done by his software, how much attention then will be awarded to coherence, flow of story, character development and the like? 

 

Also, the quite common mistakes of homophones (waste-waist, there-their-they're,  its-it's...) are quite annoying. Are you guys dictating without checking?

 

Some overused tropes/plots. The orphan. parents died in car/plane crash. Sudden vast fortune. Teenagers wise beyond years, with the business acumen of Soros/Buffet dimensions, accumulating millions and doing good deeds shaming every charity and NGO before they even reach twenty....

 

Preaching. I stopped reading the stories of at least one author here, because the constant praise of the superior qualities of the catholic faith in all his stories became to much...(nothing to do with catholicism in particular, but don't get me started on the topic)

 

Detailed body descriptions. I do not care about the character's color of hair or eyes, I don't give a whatever about their size - unless it's some extreme and important for the story. Just mention these facts eventually, if they are important to YOU. But don't expect a reader (even if it's just me here) to fall in love with your hero because he happens to be 5'11" - and not 6'.

 

Inconsistencies in a character or in the storyline. 

 

Changing/confusing  names of characters

 

In fantasy - stick to commonly "known" and agreed upon features of various creatures. E.g. vampires DO NOT breath fire; werewolves in human form do not howl, nor do they do magic....

 

If in doubt - ask! There is so much talent here, so many pages of faq, forums, blogs.....get beta readers, if you cannot find an editor. And PLEASE, just read your story/chapter after a good night's sleep  - before posting!

[Brayon]

5 hours ago, IBEX said:

In fantasy - stick to commonly "known" and agreed upon features of various creatures. E.g. vampires DO NOT breath fire; werewolves in human form do not howl, nor do they do magic....

This I have to disagree with. In some cases, having a Fantasy critter being nonstandard can make the story more interesting. I just recently was involved with a story, where the main baddie was a Female Elven Druid that became a Vampire. When she went to ground to hibernate for a few years, her nature-based magic merged her vampiric self with the land around her. Still an undead Vamp, but all her abilities were plant-based. Was truly an epic bad guy.

 

Now, not all changes are good. Like Vampires that sparkle in the sunlight, and just stare at you until you go out with them.

[ReaderPaul]

2 hours ago, BHopper2 said:

This I have to disagree with. In some cases, having a Fantasy critter being nonstandard can make the story more interesting. I just recently was involved with a story, where the main baddie was a Female Elven Druid that became a Vampire. When she went to ground to hibernate for a few years, her nature-based magic merged her vampiric self with the land around her. Still an undead Vamp, but all her abilities were plant-based. Was truly an epic bad guy.

 

Now, not all changes are good. Like Vampires that sparkle in the sunlight, and just stare at you until you go out with them.

I have to agree with you, BHopper2.  If Tolkien had not described some of his non-standard creatures, they would not be considered standard now.  BUT, we do not always need an initial complete description.  In a story I read some years back, three friends who were 12-year-old boys were three of the six main characters.  One boy was described as thin, with fiery red hair, and nearly six feet tall, and having a father and uncles who were nearly seven feet tall..  That was an adequate description for the necessity of the story. Sometimes, "less is more."

[ReaderPaul]

On 12/29/2017 at 10:36 PM, Glen730 said:

On the topic of spelling errors, I would say that today there's really no excuse for making egregious and amateurish spelling errors, no matter how Alpha the manuscript. If you want someone to read and review your work, then you owe it to your readers to check spelling. There are just too many embedded tools and even 3rd party apps (and context-sensitive apps) for catching errors, even for authors with a sophisticated vocabulary in their creative toolbox. Nothing will stop an agent, publisher, or contest judge quicker than a careless transposition ('wierd') or misplaced homonym ('your the best'). And, from my point of view, spelling due diligence isn't just a fussy academic concern; as a reader, I want to forget about the mechanics of the author's writing and enter his or her world. A misspelling is a stone on the path, a banana peel, a crack in the pavement that makes me stumble and momentarily forget where I was. No author wants that. 

I have many of the same concerns, Glen730.  I can accept a spelling error if it happens oh, say, about every thousand words or less.  But continual errors concern me.  Also, continually mixing up your, you're, and yore, or two, to, and too, or there, their, and they're -- those make me want to pull out my hair (if I had much left, that is).  One author continually misuses  your and you're, and if the stories he writes were not so good, I would have given up a year ago.  Another set of bothers are mixing up accept and except, and immigration and emigration.  (If you don't know the difference, I can recommend using dictionary dot com).

I have dyslexia (fortunately a mild case), so I can accept letters being transposed once in a while, if it is a word spell check might not catch.  But I don't like it, especially if I make the mistake myself and do not catch it before posting!

[Former Member]

When I come across an unusual word that I’m unfamiliar with, I look it up. But sometimes the definitions that do appear seem to be off from what the writer intended. In those cases, I have to believe that a thesaurus was used to find a synonym, but wasn’t double-checked for the actual meaning and whether it fits the context! I realize that the ‘wrong’ words are sometimes chosen for effect, but there are cases when it’s just too far off to be intentional.  ;-)

 

While the intent is admirable, care should be taken so readers remain impressed by your vocabulary rather than amused by your mistakes.  ;-)

[Carlos Hazday]

13 hours ago, droughtquake said:

When I come across an unusual word that I’m unfamiliar with, I look it up. But sometimes the definitions that do appear seem to be off from what the writer intended. In those cases, I have to believe that a thesaurus was used to find a synonym, but wasn’t double-checked for the actual meaning and whether it fits the context! I realize that the ‘wrong’ words are sometimes chosen for effect, but there are cases when it’s just too far off to be intentional.  ;-)

 

While the intent is admirable, care should be taken so readers remain impressed by your vocabulary rather than amused by your mistakes.  ;-)

 

In those instances when the word seems used in the wrong context, you may consider asking the author about it in the comments. I know I pepper my stories with American slang and word usage which isn't always clear to non-Americans. More than once, I've expanded a scene a bit when my older, Canadian, beta reader gets confused by something I wrote.

[Timothy M.]

16 hours ago, Carlos Hazday said:

I pepper my stories with American slang and word usage which isn't always clear to non-Americans. More than once, I've expanded a scene a bit when my older, Canadian, beta reader gets confused by something I wrote.

 

Not to mention your confused European readers.    

[Paqman]

On 02/02/2018 at 3:06 AM, droughtquake said:

When I come across an unusual word that I’m unfamiliar with, I look it up. But sometimes the definitions that do appear seem to be off from what the writer intended. In those cases, I have to believe that a thesaurus was used to find a synonym, but wasn’t double-checked for the actual meaning and whether it fits the context! I realize that the ‘wrong’ words are sometimes chosen for effect, but there are cases when it’s just too far off to be intentional.  ;-)

 

While the intent is admirable, care should be taken so readers remain impressed by your vocabulary rather than amused by your mistakes.  ;-)

Try Aladdin's Awakening, you'll be looking up very obscure words . Eg. Passel, epergne, rodemontade, theorbo, inceanubula. I gave up listing them after a few chapters

Apart from the usual lose/loose spelling mistake, one that often catches people out is viola instead of voilà . 

I generally skip graphic sex scenes , I don't find they help a story flow (and remind me of what I'm not getting!)

[Former Member]

3 minutes ago, Paqman said:

Try Aladdin's Awakening, you'll be looking up very obscure words . Eg. Passel, epergne, rodemontade, theorbo, inceanubula. I gave up listing them after a few chapters

Apart from the usual lose/loose spelling mistake, one that often catches people out is viola instead of voilà . 

I generally skip graphic sex scenes , I don't find they help a story flow (and remind me of what I'm not getting!)

I have no problem with very obscure words or unusual synonyms. I have no problem with slang. I only pointed out that some authors try to make their text more interesting without really understanding the meaning(s) of a word the chosen at random out of a thesaurus.  ;-)

 

I like expanding my vocabulary even if I forget the word a few minutes after I’ve looked it up. But in some cases, I’ll vaguely remember hearing a word that defines a concept. But I’ll have forgotten not only the word, but also where I came across it!  ;-)

 

Just remember how silly some machine translations of non-Indo-European languages into English can be! Ask Timmy about odd machine translations from English to Danish! Nobody really wants a reader to think that’s what they’re reading!  ;-)

[Former Member]

26 minutes ago, Paqman said:

Try Aladdin's Awakening

Are you referring to this one by Joel?

[Paqman]

Yes, that one. I think he makes a consistent error throughout it, he uses " 'cause" instead of " 'course" as a contraction for "of course (I am)" .  Unless it was supposed to be "because I am" but that , if I remember correctly, didn't fit the character's conversation.

 

I have no trouble looking up obscure words either, but,like you, wish people wouldn't use a thesaurus without checking a words meaning.

Another misuse is definitely when the author meant defiantly, makes me want to send a message to get it corrected. Frustrated beta reader:-)

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Paqman

[Timothy M.]

28 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

Just remember how silly some machine translations of non-Indo-European languages into English can be! Ask Timmy about odd machine translations from English to Danish! Nobody really wants a reader to think that’s what they’re reading!  ;-)

 

Yes, @ColumbusGuy and I have a good laugh about this at times, when I help him with Danish phrases for his Jay and Miles story.   

[Former Member]

29 minutes ago, Paqman said:

I think he makes a consistent error throughout it, he uses " 'cause" instead of " 'course" as a contraction for "of course (I am)" .  Unless it was supposed to be "because I am" but that , if I remember correctly, didn't fit the character's conversation.

There are cases where two words are homonyms (or near-homonyms) in some accents or dialects, but don’t sound alike to the rest of us. I don’t think that’s happening in your example, but it is a slight possibility. Hearing a British news reporter talking about ‘glass ee urs’ when we would say ‘glay shurs’ always amuses me! But ‘shed yules’ and ‘left ten nents’ are nearly as amusing to me!  ;-)

 

 

Those would be spelled glaciers, schedules, and lieutenants, respectively. And we’d say ’sked you uls’ and ‘loo ten nents’ instead. I’m not even going to try to describe how Australians sound to me!  ;-)

[LJCC]

I noticed that I've recently steered away from extreme architectural landscaping that novelists tend to do when they're really engrossed with the world they've created. It's like reading an article of better homes and garden.

 

Especially if you're in peak of an action paced part of the novel, then suddenly the story turns in a vivid description of where it suddenly becomes a Charlottee Bronte novel, it's sometimes hilarious. But I've read stories where extreme landscape description works, like The English Patient.

[Dabeagle]

As a reader I can be finicky and yet, if moved for some dumb reason, quite forgiving. If the first chapter runs to sex, I'll usually bow out. If the opening scene is a sex scene I just move on. Aside from that I fall into some of the more run of the mill reasons that have been listed before - noticeable poor grammar or spelling will pull me from a story like a book being dropped flat on the floor. It always stands out like a sore thumb if I re-read one of my own stories and find a misspelling.

Above that, can I get into the story despite its flaws? In some cases, yes. In some cases I will hang in there, waiting for it to get better. Other times, it's a no. Why? Several reasons and perhaps none of them useful to others. For instance, though we aren't to judge a book by its cover, I'll rarely open a story titled 'Name and Name' where the character names are inserted in place of 'name'. I already know the story will revolve around two characters and, more likely than not they will get together. If I spot an interesting title with an unusual name I'll open it, but stories only have so long to pull me in.

A novel was recently recommended to me by a friend. 'Relic' by Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child. I tried, I sure did. I didn't like the characters, found them to be unengaging. However if I open a Harry Dresden book by Jim Butcher or his Codex Alera series, I find myself drawn in. I think the characters have to be interesting or fun to keep me, even if the story is silly.

[Former Member]

While it wouldn’t cause me to skip a story, it’s a minor annoyance when an author confuses ‘dominate’ (a verb) with ‘dominant’ (an adjective). They are homonyms or near homonyms for some people. And they’re words that are close enough for me that I do have to sound them out when I write them sometimes.  ;-)

[Will Hawkins]

Valkyrie is a person after my own heart. I thought it was just because I was getting old, but reading the same sex scene in story after story, or even worse, several times in the same story, mixed in with grammatical errors frosts me. I know that on GA a certain amount of M2M sex is expected, but not every time two men get into a room together need we go into repetitive detail. I find the skip key very useful in that case.

   Though I have been doing some research online about acceptable grammar in contemporary writing and have decided that most of my objections are old-fashioned. In days past, I have jumped on authors for using a structure that I was taught many years ago (it is nearly 80 years since I last attended an English grammar class) and the lectures I sat through at that time were so conservative and hide-bound that what they insisted on is no longer appropriate.

 

   I will still comment on homophones though, as to use one is just a sign of laziness on the part of an author (or of ignorance on the part of an editor). 

 

•  

 

[VampireMystic]

Hmm. What to say?

 

There are mistakes here I think I've made. There are characteristics my writing could easily have if I take something too far one way or the other. 

 

I can't think of anything I actually skipped parts of once I start reading it. My nature is to read it as the author intended even if I don't read the next chapter.

 

I'm glad this thread is here though.