cj CJ By Carlos Hazday - Series Discussion

[Bucket1]

SO, I have a question for you guys and anyone else who'd like to chime in:

 

Spikey and I joke often about my dislike for sappy romance and my denials of being a romantic. I know my aversion is in part fueled by the preponderance of MM Romance stories on this site and most others. Is the abundance of such stories skewing our views of how a relationship should develop?

 

CJ & Ozzie met and hit it off; jumping in bed fairly quickly as many gay men often do. They don't see each other for 6 months and during that time CJ (thanks to Dragon) realizes he's fighting relationship and abandonment issues. The boys spend two weeks traveling alone, enjoying themselves and getting to know each other before engaging in sex again. Three months late, after dating and living next to each other, the become a couple.

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time. I started with 4 couples, two were solid and had been together from the moment they met, the other two broke up. I tried to show a sense of family between the men balanced by the reality so many couple break up and divorce. And in the process, I tried to poke some fun at myself knowing CJ and Ozzie would become boyfriends. No spoilers about what happens to them in the future!

 

So, what do you think? Did I wait too long? Is their taking almost a year after meeting to make it 'official' too long or is it realistic?

 

 

Before we get onto the serious stuff, you have a problem, the first step is admitting it, you do write romantically. Are your stories full of unicorn farts and rainbows? No. But there are solid relationships, communication between partners (now husbands), touching moments, kidding around, teasing, supportive, trusting relationships. Not rose petals and glitter but good old fashioned romantic moments. I will concede you don't write romance but you do capture romantic moments. 

 

For my two cents worth, the CJ/Owen relationship has been believable and realistic. CJ has to have serious abandonment and trust issues. Yes, yes a fictional character doesn't need to have those but if you are trying to tell us a story based in real life, then the people need to have realistic responses to the situations at hand. Did the relationship flow smoothly from A to B? Nope but very few do.

 

The other thing to remember is that you are not writing a short story. We give you crap about your uber-spreadsheet but there is a long term story arc in play. This does give you the time to develop the story, explore the relationship as it unfolds and we (at least I) do not expect everything to be wrapped up at the end of a book. CJ's inability to see the Owen is the one for him, has it been frustrating? Of course, just like when it happens in real life.

 

Where do you take it from here? You have told us that there are a couple more books to go before you wrap up this journey you have taken us on. I know they are a couple now but there is no reason to suspect that the epilogue will feature CJ scattering Owen's ashes at the winery surrounded by their children, grand children and great grandchildren. We don't know where this story will take us and that's half the fun. 

 

 

Disclaimers (so I don't get hit)...

 

Nothing wrong with unicorn farts and glitter, well maybe glitter, actually not a fan at all of glitter but nothing wrong with a HEA

 

I'm not saying CJ and Owen will/should break up but just pointing out that if Owen shoots Cesar over the rugby arguement that is probably the end of the relationship. High School Sweethearts are few and far between. (New stories about Cap and Harley )

 

Nothing I have said will stop me from teasing Carlos about the size of his ummm spreadsheet, about the fact he is romantic, and he loves unicorn farts

[Carlos Hazday]

Have you ever woken up between two guys to realize all three of you have gitter in the most unlikely of spaces? And all thanks to the fool who dipped himself in the stuff before hitting the dance floor the previous night? I HATE the stuff! A day after repeated showers you're still picking it out from your chest hair!

 

Not so sure about unicorn farts but horny animals are always welcome around my place.

 

How the hell did Buck know about the Rugby argument with Cesar? That's part of the spreadsheet but hasn't been written yet!

 

Spikey, my question's not something new in my mind. If you look at Walls the first and then the latest chapter have garnered the most reviews. The first one's easy to understand, there where several confrontations and it was the return of the story after a short hiatus. The latest one didn't surprise me either because when I was writing it last year I knew it would tickle quite a few readers. I was going to delay them becoming a couple a bit longer but the next two chapters had so much going on I decided Thanksgiving was a good time and it gave me the opportunity to have the Chicago cousins play a part in it. I kinda boxed myself in by deciding each chapter would cover a month so there was a need to pick and choose what to include. You're right I don't write everything, I leave some things to the reader's imagination and some items need to be delayed so the story flows better. One result of this is the story will move along faster since I'm not trying to describe everything that happens and sometimes it'll just be a line which will tell us what's been going on.

 

Back to Bucket- Springsteen just played 3 nights in Pert, did you go see him?

[Reader1810]

I have to agree that you do write 'romantically', but you write for real men not Harlequin caricatures. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Reader1810

[Carlos Hazday]

I have to agree that you do write 'romantically', but you write for real mean not Harlequin caricatures. 

Real mean? lol

 

Probably due to the people I've surrounded myself with over the years. Some solid, long-term relationships without a lot of glitter and unicorn farts. (That line's making it into the story sooner or later!) Although the story's fiction, a lot of the characters have some resemblance to people I've known. 

[Bucket1]

I never should have mentioned glitter... it is evil stuff...

[Reader1810]

Real mean? lol

 

Probably due to the people I've surrounded myself with over the years. Some solid, long-term relationships without a lot of glitter and unicorn farts. (That line's making it into the story sooner or later!) Although the story's fiction, a lot of the characters have some resemblance to people I've known. 

 

Real men! That was a typo - damn autocorrect - not a Freudian slip. Promise 

[dughlas]

Nothing wrong with the pacing in this story. Things, including relationships unfold in realtime. I like Reader's suggestion that you write stories for real men. I would add "and about" in the sentence.

 

In my world glitter is known as "faery herpes". And why does everybody suggest unicorn farts don't stink? That's just horses***. Unicorns are just magical horses with horns.

[Reader1810]

Nothing wrong with the pacing in this story. Things, including relationships unfold in realtime. I like Reader's suggestion that you write stories for real men. I would add "and about" in the sentence.

 

In my world glitter is known as "faery herpes". And why does everybody suggest unicorn farts don't stink? That's just horses***. Unicorns are just magical horses with horns.

 

'About' was actually what I meant to say, so thanks for the clarification Dugh.

 

We readers like reading about real men, so thank you Carlos.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Reader1810

[Kitt]

You are so right, Dughlas.

CJ and my twins are the same age, 16 going on 22, their brains just don't always see logic, they seem to see mostly in emotion.

 

Sometimes I see CJ in them and them in CJ.

 

 

SO, I have a question for you guys and anyone else who'd like to chime in:

 

Spikey and I joke often about my dislike for sappy romance and my denials of being a romantic. I know my aversion is in part fueled by the preponderance of MM Romance stories on this site and most others. Is the abundance of such stories skewing our views of how a relationship should develop?

 

CJ & Ozzie met and hit it off; jumping in bed fairly quickly as many gay men often do. They don't see each other for 6 months and during that time CJ (thanks to Dragon) realizes he's fighting relationship and abandonment issues. The boys spend two weeks traveling alone, enjoying themselves and getting to know each other before engaging in sex again. Three months late, after dating and living next to each other, the become a couple.

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time. I started with 4 couples, two were solid and had been together from the moment they met, the other two broke up. I tried to show a sense of family between the men balanced by the reality so many couple break up and divorce. And in the process, I tried to poke some fun at myself knowing CJ and Ozzie would become boyfriends. No spoilers about what happens to them in the future!

 

So, what do you think? Did I wait too long? Is their taking almost a year after meeting to make it 'official' too long or is it realistic?

 

Nope, you did not wait too long. If I had thought you had I would have been all over you like glitter the next morning!

Have you ever woken up between two guys to realize all three of you have gitter in the most unlikely of spaces? And all thanks to the fool who dipped himself in the stuff before hitting the dance floor the previous night? I HATE the stuff! A day after repeated showers you're still picking it out from your chest hair!

 

 

 

I never should have mentioned glitter... it is evil stuff...

 

 

In my world glitter is known as "faery herpes". And why does everybody suggest unicorn farts don't stink? That's just horses***. Unicorns are just magical horses with horns.

 

Glitter seldom came into play back in my clubbing days, but then it was not accepted to be dancing shirtless then either, and the gay patrons kept their sexuality under wraps until they were pretty sure whom they were outting themselves to.

 

Around the daycare I worked in for 15+ years ( my second career) we used to call the stuff "craft herpes". I would purposely redesign crafts that called for glitter any time I possibly could, and would not let each table have their own glitter supplies - we had one table, constantly supervised, in an (futile) attempt to keep the shit corralled.

 

 

Unicorn farts and rainbows are ok reading, I enjoy an ocassional short route to a HEA, but stories based in real life situations and real men and women are also on my reading list. This one ranks high on that list!  And I love that I can help to bring the story here for the rest of you!

[spike382]

 Spikey, my question's not something new in my mind. If you look at Walls the first and then the latest chapter have garnered the most reviews. The first one's easy to understand, there where several confrontations and it was the return of the story after a short hiatus. The latest one didn't surprise me either because when I was writing it last year I knew it would tickle quite a few readers. I was going to delay them becoming a couple a bit longer but the next two chapters had so much going on I decided Thanksgiving was a good time and it gave me the opportunity to have the Chicago cousins play a part in it. I kinda boxed myself in by deciding each chapter would cover a month so there was a need to pick and choose what to include. You're right I don't write everything, I leave some things to the reader's imagination and some items need to be delayed so the story flows better. One result of this is the story will move along faster since I'm not trying to describe everything that happens and sometimes it'll just be a line which will tell us what's been going on.

As far as not writing everything, part of that is simply your writing style, and of course the always crucial skill of showing instead of telling. You do leave it up to our imagination to fill in the blanks. You don't tell us outright, CJ feels like this. You show us with hints here and there. It's understated and not present all the time. But you show us it's there. In my mind, it's characterization. CJ probably doesn't always acknowledge his feelings about things. One of my favorite chapters of the entire story was the discussion between Dragon and CJ. I don't think he even realized how much everything that happened to him hurt him until he actually started talking about it. He internalized a lot of stuff.

[dughlas]

CJ may be our focus but this story has a remarkable ensemble cast. Even the ones we despise are people that could be having dinner at the next table at your favorite pub. They might be the hot guy jogging toward you on your way to the bus stop [be still my heart]. When you see a yellow jeep do you look who's driving? Me, whenever I see a white-turquoise Harley I look for the ancient biker CJ keeps bumping into ... you never know.

[Carlos Hazday]

CJ may be our focus but this story has a remarkable ensemble cast. Even the ones we despise are people that could be having dinner at the next table at your favorite pub. They might be the hot guy jogging toward you on your way to the bus stop [be still my heart]. When you see a yellow jeep do you look who's driving? Me, whenever I see a white-turquoise Harley I look for the ancient biker CJ keeps bumping into ... you never know.

A couple of days ago I was on my motorcycle headed somewhere and saw a yellow Jeep coming my way. I slowed down and looked at the driver before I realized what I was doing. Talk about my characters taking over!

[Reader1810]

A couple of days ago I was on my motorcycle headed somewhere and saw a yellow Jeep coming my way. I slowed down and looked at the driver before I realized what I was doing. Talk about my characters taking over!

Made me 

[mollyhousemouse]

SO, I have a question for you guys and anyone else who'd like to chime in:

 

Spikey and I joke often about my dislike for sappy romance and my denials of being a romantic. I know my aversion is in part fueled by the preponderance of MM Romance stories on this site and most others. Is the abundance of such stories skewing our views of how a relationship should develop?

 

CJ & Ozzie met and hit it off; jumping in bed fairly quickly as many gay men often do. They don't see each other for 6 months and during that time CJ (thanks to Dragon) realizes he's fighting relationship and abandonment issues. The boys spend two weeks traveling alone, enjoying themselves and getting to know each other before engaging in sex again. Three months late, after dating and living next to each other, the become a couple.

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time. I started with 4 couples, two were solid and had been together from the moment they met, the other two broke up. I tried to show a sense of family between the men balanced by the reality so many couple break up and divorce. And in the process, I tried to poke some fun at myself knowing CJ and Ozzie would become boyfriends. No spoilers about what happens to them in the future!

 

So, what do you think? Did I wait too long? Is their taking almost a year after meeting to make it 'official' too long or is it realistic?

 

Well it took me a full day, and a few trips to the dictionary and using Google Docs to do it.

 

First off, you do write romance.  Merriam-Webster defines it:

 

a (1) :  a medieval tale based on legend, chivalric love and adventure, or the supernatural (2) :  a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious (3) :  a love story especially in the form of a novel

 

CJ is being raised in the chivalric tradition.

 

Chivalrous  gallant, courteous, and generous behavior

 

His fathers model that behavior everyday.  They treat each other that way.

CJ treats everyone around him that way.  The second trip to Australia, and the trip in the US is very much chivalrous.  

Definition 2...is CJ’s story heroic? Not in a “Trials of Hercules” way perhaps.  But in a modern overcoming adversity (Lourdes and Dickhead, New York) growing, maturing, learning from what’s been thrown at him.  

 

Romance isn’t always rescuing the desired one from the dragons,or a Snidely Whiplash type.

Romance is learning what makes the desired one happy, finding ways to do little things to show how much you care about them.

 

Carlos, you write romance.

What you don’t write are fairy tales.

 

This

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time.

 

is an interesting question.

 

I don’t think this is the culprit of setting expectations high.  This jumping in bed quickly is very common in all “romance” stories.  What does set people up to expect this is the human desire to avoid conflict.  To want this kind of relationship.  To have someone who fills every hole in the heart. Who knows, just by looking at you that you’ve had the worst, or best, day.  That what you need is a hug, or a swift kick in the pants.  And when a writer puts these desires and endings in words, with people who we think we know, characters that are so believable, we become hopeful.

 

Disney is a guilty of this.  RomComs, Made For TV Movies, are guilty of this.

Did you wait too long?  Nope.  CJ had issues to work thru.  He may be incredibly mature, but the kid is only 16.  The executive function part of his brain hasn’t even developed yet.  I’m betting that this isn’t going to be a cruise on The Love Boat, but may in fact resemble Gilligan's Island in some respects.

[Reader1810]

Well it took me a full day, and a few trips to the dictionary and using Google Docs to do it.

 

First off, you do write romance.  Merriam-Webster defines it:

 

a (1) :  a medieval tale based on legend, chivalric love and adventure, or the supernatural (2) :  a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious (3) :  a love story especially in the form of a novel

 

CJ is being raised in the chivalric tradition.

 

Chivalrous  gallant, courteous, and generous behavior

 

His fathers model that behavior everyday.  They treat each other that way.

CJ treats everyone around him that way.  The second trip to Australia, and the trip in the US is very much chivalrous.  

Definition 2...is CJ’s story heroic? Not in a “Trials of Hercules” way perhaps.  But in a modern overcoming adversity (Lourdes and Dickhead, New York) growing, maturing, learning from what’s been thrown at him.  

 

Romance isn’t always rescuing the desired one from the dragons,or a Snidely Whiplash type.

Romance is learning what makes the desired one happy, finding ways to do little things to show how much you care about them.

 

Carlos, you write romance.

What you don’t write are fairy tales.

 

This

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time.

 

is an interesting question.

 

I don’t think this is the culprit of setting expectations high.  This jumping in bed quickly is very common in all “romance” stories.  What does set people up to expect this is the human desire to avoid conflict.  To want this kind of relationship.  To have someone who fills every hole in the heart. Who knows, just by looking at you that you’ve had the worst, or best, day.  That what you need is a hug, or a swift kick in the pants.  And when a writer puts these desires and endings in words, with people who we think we know, characters that are so believable, we become hopeful.

 

Disney is a guilty of this.  RomComs, Made For TV Movies, are guilty of this.

Did you wait too long?  Nope.  CJ had issues to work thru.  He may be incredibly mature, but the kid is only 16.  The executive function part of his brain hasn’t even developed yet.  I’m betting that this isn’t going to be a cruise on The Love Boat, but may in fact resemble Gilligan's Island in some respects.

     

[mollyhousemouse]

     

Thanks,,,,,,

[Carlos Hazday]

Well it took me a full day, and a few trips to the dictionary and using Google Docs to do it.

 

First off, you do write romance.  Merriam-Webster defines it:

 

a (1) :  a medieval tale based on legend, chivalric love and adventure, or the supernatural (2) :  a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious (3) :  a love story especially in the form of a novel

 

CJ is being raised in the chivalric tradition.

 

Chivalrous  gallant, courteous, and generous behavior

 

His fathers model that behavior everyday.  They treat each other that way.

CJ treats everyone around him that way.  The second trip to Australia, and the trip in the US is very much chivalrous.  

Definition 2...is CJ’s story heroic? Not in a “Trials of Hercules” way perhaps.  But in a modern overcoming adversity (Lourdes and Dickhead, New York) growing, maturing, learning from what’s been thrown at him.  

 

Romance isn’t always rescuing the desired one from the dragons,or a Snidely Whiplash type.

Romance is learning what makes the desired one happy, finding ways to do little things to show how much you care about them.

 

Carlos, you write romance.

What you don’t write are fairy tales.

 

This

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time.

 

is an interesting question.

 

I don’t think this is the culprit of setting expectations high.  This jumping in bed quickly is very common in all “romance” stories.  What does set people up to expect this is the human desire to avoid conflict.  To want this kind of relationship.  To have someone who fills every hole in the heart. Who knows, just by looking at you that you’ve had the worst, or best, day.  That what you need is a hug, or a swift kick in the pants.  And when a writer puts these desires and endings in words, with people who we think we know, characters that are so believable, we become hopeful.

 

Disney is a guilty of this.  RomComs, Made For TV Movies, are guilty of this.

Did you wait too long?  Nope.  CJ had issues to work thru.  He may be incredibly mature, but the kid is only 16.  The executive function part of his brain hasn’t even developed yet.  I’m betting that this isn’t going to be a cruise on The Love Boat, but may in fact resemble Gilligan's Island in some respects.

 

 

 

 

 

I stand corrected.

 

That was an awesome response and I can't thank you enough!

[mollyhousemouse]

 

 

 

I stand corrected.

 

That was an awesome response and I can't thank you enough!

  

[Kitt]

Lol I guess she told you, Carlos! Where is that hi five emoji when we need one?

[mollyhousemouse]

Lol I guess she told you, Carlos! Where is that hi five emoji when we need one?

Thanks, Kitt.

 

(I worried that was too much...)

[dughlas]

Well it took me a full day, and a few trips to the dictionary and using Google Docs to do it.

 

First off, you do write romance.  Merriam-Webster defines it:[/size]

 

a[/size] (1) [/size]:[/size]  a medieval tale based on legend, chivalric love and adventure, or the supernatural (2) [/size]:[/size]  a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious (3) [/size]:[/size]  a love story especially in the form of a novel[/size]

 

CJ is being raised in the chivalric tradition. [/size]

 

Chivalrous  gallant, courteous, and generous behavior[/size]

 

His fathers model that behavior everyday.  They treat each other that way.[/size]

CJ treats everyone around him that way.  The second trip to Australia, and the trip in the US is very much chivalrous.  [/size]

Definition 2...is CJ’s story heroic? Not in a “Trials of Hercules” way perhaps.  But in a modern overcoming adversity (Lourdes and Dickhead, New York) growing, maturing, learning from what’s been thrown at him.  [/size]

 

Romance isn’t always rescuing the desired one from the dragons,or a Snidely Whiplash type.[/size]

Romance is learning what makes the desired one happy, finding ways to do little things to show how much you care about them.[/size]

 

Carlos, you write romance.[/size]

What you don’t write are fairy tales.[/size]

 

This [/size]

 

Now my question is whether the rapid pace at which romance blooms in most stories has conditioned us to expect the same all the time.

 

is an interesting question.[/size]

 

I don’t think this is the culprit of setting expectations high.  This jumping in bed quickly is very common in all “romance” stories.  What does set people up to expect this is the human desire to avoid conflict.  To want this kind of relationship.  To have someone who fills every hole in the heart. Who knows, just by looking at you that you’ve had the worst, or best, day.  That what you need is a hug, or a swift kick in the pants.  And when a writer puts these desires and endings in words, with people who we think we know, characters that are so believable, we become hopeful.[/size]

 

Disney is a guilty of this.  RomComs, Made For TV Movies, are guilty of this.

Did you wait too long?  Nope.  CJ had issues to work thru.  He may be incredibly mature, but the kid is only 16.  The executive function part of his brain hasn’t even developed yet.  I’m betting that this isn’t going to be a cruise on The Love Boat, but may in fact resemble Gilligan's Island in some respects.[/size]

Wow ... just, wow.

 

Hey Carlos I guess your readers take your work pretty seriously ...

[Carlos Hazday]

Wow ... just, wow.

 

Hey Carlos I guess your readers take your work pretty seriously ...

 

Reader reaction never ceaces to amaze me, Dugh.

 

What started out as a little story about a kid growing up with two gay parents has grown to give me a lot of pleasure. And most of that comes from knowing others are enjoying the ride. Now all I need to do is keep writing which hasn't been easy this week. Slow as molasses getting chapter 17 completed even after I split it in half because it was too damn long. Funny how the December 2014 chapter will post this coming week while I'm trying to finish the one for December 2015.

[Carlos Hazday]

These have been popping up on the family's motorcycles...

 

[Reader1810]

'United' is an apt description of these guys. 

[mollyhousemouse]

  

So it's been a really long, not so good week.

I looked at my daughter, and said, "I am so glad tomorrow's Friday."  

To which she giggled, and said, "Ma (they call me Ma) tomorrow's only Thursday."  

 

     

 

........sigh........