Inappropriate Comments and Feedback

[Timothy M.]

11 hours ago, BHopper2 said:

I'm curious as to why the word "mouthwash." The only times I've seen it used, was when a character used said item when brushing teeth. 

 

11 hours ago, Valkyrie said:

And I'm with Bhopper.... what's up with mouthwash?  

 

to quote from one of several PMs on the topic (I've removed the sentence showing which story it was about):

 

What's with the mouthwash thing? Have people in NA been brainwashed into thinking this is a good idea? It's not common in Europe - or at least I don't think it is. 

 

Every now and then I come across a story, where one of the characters as part of his cleaning routine before a date or before sex does the 'gargle with mouthwash' after brushing teeth ritual. It always makes me roll my eyes and start laughing, and completely kills the mood.

 

But even worse: Halitosis (bad breath) is a fictional 'medical' problem - and it's invented by the Listerine who wanted to sell a mouthwash product. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listerine Every time anyone writes a story where using mouthwash is promoted as a good hygiene thing, they are buying into this lie and perpetuating it.

 

Just one of many articles on the topic:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/marketing-campaign-invented-halitosis-180954082/

 

from an Australian Dental Journal paper from 2008:

"Whilst many of these products may have been shown to be effective in penetrating oral microbial biofilms in vitro and reducing oral bacterial load, it would be wise to restrict their use to short-term therapeutic situations if needed. ...

There may well be a reason for the use of alcohol-containing mouthrinses, but only for a particular situation and for a limited and controlled period of time. ...

mouthwash use should be restricted to adults for short durations and specific, clearly defined reasons."

Edited August 23, 2017 by Timothy M.
adding documentation

[Brayon]

I see you have a strong view of it, @Timothy M.. However, if you look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_hygiene#Mouthwash  there are benefits to using Mouthwash, which is supported by the American Dental Association. It's more than just "bad breath," but has other uses. Brushing + Mouthwash = removal of more plaque + prevention of tooth decay.

[Cynus]

The worst thing I ever received was an email from a guy who said "he couldn't support pedophilia"...

He hadn't read the story, but simply because my characters were thirteen and fourteen and they were on a website hosting LGBT fiction, he decided I must be writing graphic sex scenes involving these characters. This was in one of my many stories without any sex in it at all (I think I mention once that they had sex off camera, but that's it).

This didn't happen at GA. The worst I've received here was that someone found the story "too predictable", and he was 100% correct. I personally love the way the community here reacts to stories. The only thing I wish they did differently was offer MORE commentary. Usually the comments are just encouragement, and I wish I received more constructive criticism, or even comments where they told me what I did right.

To me, the difference between constructive criticism and non-constructive criticism is whether it pertains to the method of writing itself or not. If someone comments to tell me they hate one of my characters because of their own personal bias, that's not constructive. If they tell me that they felt the character development was too weak to invest the reader in that development, I find THAT constructive.

[Brayon]

I was reading a story last night, and then read one of the chapter comments. While it's not my story, I felt the comment was uncalled for. Part of the criticism this Author got was, "Your story is too white." I paused reading that. However, the commenter quickly followed up with, "Not race-wise, but chromatic color-wise. The story was too white." What the hell does that even mean? The story was an atypical M/M Love Story, with a bit of supernatural flair. I'm guessing the Reader felt that the Author didn't make it dark/serious enough. Still, are we as the Author of our stories the ones to determine the tone of our stories? If I wanted to do a Disney-esque, Sunshine and Lollipops, Unicorns farting glitter, story, isn't that my prerogative?

[mogwhy]

7 minutes ago, BHopper2 said:

I was reading a story last night, and then read one of the chapter comments. While it's not my story, I felt the comment was uncalled for. Part of the criticism this Author got was, "Your story is too white." I paused reading that. However, the commenter quickly followed up with, "Not race-wise, but chromatic color-wise. The story was too white." What the hell does that even mean? The story was an atypical M/M Love Story, with a bit of supernatural flair. I'm guessing the Reader felt that the Author didn't make it dark/serious enough. Still, are we as the Author of our stories the ones to determine the tone of our stories? If I wanted to do a Disney-esque, Sunshine and Lollipops, Unicorns farting glitter, story, isn't that my prerogative?

 

 sometimes i want the rainbows and glitter farts, ya know? life can be depressing and you need a laugh or a HEA or two. briefly i had to stop reading one series, (that doesn't happen with me much) because he got too dark. there is also two stories i'd like to read by 2 different authors i enjoy, but the the descriptions give me pause, and i fear they are too... something for me to handle in my present state of mind.

[Cynus]

43 minutes ago, BHopper2 said:

I was reading a story last night, and then read one of the chapter comments. While it's not my story, I felt the comment was uncalled for. Part of the criticism this Author got was, "Your story is too white." I paused reading that. However, the commenter quickly followed up with, "Not race-wise, but chromatic color-wise. The story was too white." What the hell does that even mean? The story was an atypical M/M Love Story, with a bit of supernatural flair. I'm guessing the Reader felt that the Author didn't make it dark/serious enough. Still, are we as the Author of our stories the ones to determine the tone of our stories? If I wanted to do a Disney-esque, Sunshine and Lollipops, Unicorns farting glitter, story, isn't that my prerogative?

That is a bit open-ended, isn't it? You went a different way with it than I did. What you saw was the light = white/black = dark comparison, while I assumed he/she/they meant the level of detail in the story. Maybe there was so little description it felt they were always in a white room with no color to spice things up?

But that's part of the problem, isn't it? When feedback is colloquial like this, we interpret the feedback in our own way. You and I receiving this comment would react to it differently, and we would choose to alter our style (or not) based upon that interpretation.

However, we could also ask the commentator to clarify.

[Carlos Hazday]

IMO There's no such thing as bad feedback. Even the haters give me something to chew on.

 

@Mann Ramblings takes care of beating me enough so most people don't complain about the actual writing.

 

Subject matter's another thing. Funniest one was a recent e-mail a reader sent when my character showed interest in working for Hillary Clinton's campaign. He mentioned CJ working for the 'murderous bitch" and was kind enough to send me a link to an article detailing all the people who have died as a result of their association with the Clintons. That was one of the few messages I ignored. I honestly had nothing to say! Hopefully he'll write again when my kid's actual involvement is detailed.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Carlos Hazday

[Myr]

8 hours ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Hillary Clinton's campaign. He mentioned CJ working for the 'murderous bitch"

 

Having directly experienced an attempt my life by her, I can only assume that the article was likely true. 

 

True story:  While First Lady and running for Senate here in NY, she was visiting my campus. As I stepped off the curve onto the crosswalk, Her SUV, ran the stop sign, swerved around the corner and only barely missed hitting me.  Turns out that the Secret Service doesn't like being called fucking morons and being told to watch where the fuck they were driving.  Of course, I only realized after cursing them out that Her High Holiness was in the vehicle.

 

I generally try to avoid real political figures while writing or while reading.  Why piss off at least 50% of your audience without needing to? 

[FormerMember4]

11 minutes ago, Myr said:

 

Having directly experienced an attempt my life by her, I can only assume that the article was likely true. 

 

True story:  While First Lady and running for Senate here in NY, she was visiting my campus. As I stepped off the curve onto the crosswalk, Her SUV, ran the stop sign, swerved around the corner and only barely missed hitting me.  Turns out that the Secret Service doesn't like being called fucking morons and being told to watch where the fuck they were driving.  Of course, I only realized after cursing them out that Her High Holiness was in the vehicle.

 

I generally try to avoid real political figures while writing or while reading.  Why piss off at least 50% of your audience without needing to?

 

I'm happy you lived through that. Normally I agree with you on politics. However; I love the personality Carlos puts to these figures. Sometimes a good chuckle. Like how he sees Bubba or Ted Cruz!

[Carlos Hazday]

@Myr

 

Politics has been part of the series from the first book when I had the kid intern with Marco Rubio and will continue to be an integral part of it 'til the end. I guess I'm more interested in telling the story the way I imagined it than in pleasing anyone else.

 

I'm actually trying to create a complex political philosophy for the kid and expose him to as much as possible. I preach and often do it loudly and him being on TV as a Clinton surrogate gave me a great platform. Plus since one of his dad's a Reublican and the other one an independent, I had to make the son a Democrat!

Edited August 23, 2017 by Carlos Hazday

[Myr]

@Carlos Hazday As with all things, to each his  (or her or their or whatever) own.  If what you're doing works for you and others like, wonderful

 

There is a reason I read and write fantasy and science fiction... aside from my love of both, of course. lol

[Dodger]

On 8/22/2017 at 1:13 PM, Timothy M. said:

Mostly, if I have something really critical to say or question, I'll do it in a PM. If other readers do the same, then that may be why you don't see so many public ones.

 

But sometimes I get so annoyed my opinion comes out in a comment. I often regret it afterwards (thank god for the new edit comment function) even if I consider my point valid. A lot of the time I don't bother, because I have the feeling those authors won't listen to even constructive criticism, so why bother or upset them for no reason?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

One example was an author having a teen who had been critically sick go on a camping trip in a remote area  - this didn't seem plausible at all.

 

And the word Mouthwash (if used in a positive context) will always elicit a PM and/or the loss of me as a reader. So now you know how to get rid of me.   

 

Oh - and to answer the question - yeah, I've gotten a few harsh comments, but they were all well-deserved as far as I recall, so no hard feelings.

Tim, your comments and one, in particular, about a year ago helped me to accept and understand the importance of constructive criticism. It was a definite turning point for me and I was able to learn and my writing improved as a direct result. You also encouraged me to reply to comments and reviews which proved to be enormously helpful, so you've played an important part in my learning curve. Therefore you will never read the word 'Mouthwash' in any of my stories. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Dodger

[Former Member]

On 8/22/2017 at 1:13 PM, Timothy M. said:

And the word Mouthwash (if used in a positive context) will always elicit a PM and/or the loss of me as a reader. So now you know how to get rid of me.   

[FormerMember4]

5 hours ago, Dodger said:

Tim, your comments and one, in particular, about a year ago helped me to accept and understand the importance of constructive criticism. It was a definite turning point for me and I was able to learn and my writing improved as a direct result. You also encouraged me to reply to comments and reviews which proved to be enormously helpful, so you've played an important part in my learning curve. Therefore you will never read the word 'Mouthwash' in any of my stories. 

I think Robbie has other ideas, when referring to mouthwash! LOL!

[Drew Espinosa]

I have never received any harsh criticisms on my stories. The closest (and it still wouldn't be anywhere near harsh) I can think of would be during the editing process for my anthology entry- @Kitt didn't sugarcoat things for me!  And that's not me complaining, she did a fantastic job highlighting the areas in my story that needed to be fixed and made it a whole lot better than I could have done on my own.  

[Brayon]

17 minutes ago, Drew Espinosa said:

I have never received any harsh criticisms on my stories. The closest (and it still wouldn't be anywhere near harsh) I can think of would be during the editing process for my anthology entry- @Kitt didn't sugarcoat things for me!  And that's not me complaining, she did a fantastic job highlighting the areas in my story that needed to be fixed and made it a whole lot better than I could have done on my own.  

@Kitt is an awesome editor.

[FormerMember4]

1 hour ago, BHopper2 said:

@Kitt is an awesome editor.

She is an awesome editor. She is also from Jersey. Honey, we don't sugarcoat anything. 

[Timothy M.]

11 hours ago, Dodger said:

Tim, your comments and one, in particular, about a year ago helped me to accept and understand the importance of constructive criticism. It was a definite turning point for me and I was able to learn and my writing improved as a direct result. You also encouraged me to reply to comments and reviews which proved to be enormously helpful, so you've played an important part in my learning curve. Therefore you will never read the word 'Mouthwash' in any of my stories. 

 

 this is probably one of the best compliments and feedback I've gotten for some of my (ranting) comments. It definitely made my day (actually my whole week ). Thank you, Dodger  

[FormerMember4]

3 minutes ago, Timothy M. said:

 

 this is probably one of the best compliments and feedback I've gotten for some of my (ranting) comments. It definitely made my day (actually my whole week ). Thank you, Dodger  

I remember that one too. I think you ended up saying... I won't comment anymore. ☺️

[Timothy M.]

9 minutes ago, BlindAmbition said:

I remember that one too. I think you ended up saying... I won't comment anymore. ☺️

 

Yeah, I think you're right, except I think I said I'd keep my comments to positive matters, if Dodger was upset. But he sent me a very nice PM as far as I recall, and we managed to sort it out.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Timothy M.

[FormerMember4]

I think any form of expression requires a certain amount of humility. Of course it's personal, because it's an expression of you. 
However; painting, writing, etc must get critiques, or opinions for one to improve on their chosen medium. 

[William King]

Reading through this thread I notice a couple of points:

1. Someone mentioned a problem with the star rating.

The context was people giving one star as soon as the story gets published, but that has been addressed by the update. You can only rate completed stories when reviewing. I find the reverse problem - too many 5 star ratings! There is no guidance on what the ratings mean, example, poor, room for improvement, okay/fair, good, exceptional. However, you think of the star rating, 5 stars has got to be exceptional, but is given all the time.

2. Criticism - If you never get any adverse comments, whatever you think about those comments, then you have received no real feedback, at least not balanced. There seems to be a tendence to react badly to negative feedback, this is something I believe should be avoided. Example, I received feedback on a story that said simply - don't like the plot. I replied explaining, without giving anything away, how things might progress in the story and to stick with it and find out. The reader come back later with other comments, so obviously carried on reading. If someone bothers to respond to a story it is because it has touched them, positively, or negatively. They deserve a considered response even if they tell you they don't like your story.

 

One aside, @Myr posed the question to @Carlos Hazday, why alienate half your readers by portraying a real life person negatively? Because as an author you can do it, you can put across your point of view, politically or otherwise, people will react to it, but that's the point. You can do the same with science fiction, it's just a bit more hidden.

[CassieQ]

What I am taking away from this is that critical feedback is okay, if it is of good quality and constructive.  Non constructive criticism (aka "this sucks") is useless.  And mouthwash is bad for some reason.   

[Brayon]

On 8/25/2017 at 2:39 AM, William King said:

1. Someone mentioned a problem with the star rating.

The context was people giving one star as soon as the story gets published, but that has been addressed by the update. You can only rate completed stories when reviewing. I find the reverse problem - too many 5 star ratings! There is no guidance on what the ratings mean, example, poor, room for improvement, okay/fair, good, exceptional. However, you think of the star rating, 5 stars has got to be exceptional, but is given all the time.

Ratings are subjective based on the reviewer. What I rate as 5 Stars, someone else might rate as 1 Star. So we don't need "guidelines," of what is worthy of XX Stars... That stinks of totalitarian group think. Take it as a compliment that someone felt your story was worth 5 stars in their opinion. 

 

For the record, I've reviewed and rated stories on this site according to my tastes and views. Most that I've done have been 5 Stars, some are 4. Again, that is my opinion of that specific story's worth.

[Krista]

Some of the worst comments/feedback, I've received happened well before I was on GA. Thankfully, that is what kept me writing and on GA, the readers were just... of better quality? For the most part.

 

When I posted to NIfty, I got one that said: "I think I know where you're going with this story, if you do I'll slit your fucking throat." 

 

The worst that was from a reader on GA, they read all of my earlier works and after the last chapter of each, they kept saying, "I'll never read another story from you..." but since they obviously kept reading my writing... I just didn't understand their shit.

 

Mostly though, since I write pretty much just modern romance these days, most of my criticism comes from me being a bit slow at posting. I'd say 95% of my feedback is positive and the criticism is constructive. If I ever branch out of my comfort zone to other genres that I rarely touch, I hope to get the feedback as constructive as I've gotten on GA so far. I don't know if I branched out to other sites for posting that the feedback would be as good as I get here... as far as quality of feedback goes. I wish more people hit, "like," or whatever then told me why in comments... though.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Krista